What to do about malevolent devas constantly bothering you

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    • #23714
      upekkha100
      Participant

      Hi friends. Please I need your help very much. I don’t know what else to do.

      Recently my life has been in great turmoil. I had to to go a psychiatric facility and stay there for two weeks. If already having severe OCD since childhood was not bad enough, they now have given me medications for schizophrenia and bipolar. One of the medications called clonazepam, when I stop taking it, the withdrawal symptoms are quite scary, give me anxiety, sorta disassociate me from reality, confuse me about reality, and I read these are what the withdrawal side effects are too.   And I also hear oices a lot, a lot of times the things they say is Buddhism is not real, among other things. Voices say reall scary fearful things that deeply confuse me. And have acted out of character, I’m assuming I got possessed by them, because my tongue did an action that was surely not mine. And give me images of sexual thoughts too.

       I read one of the 10 armies of Mara is sensual pleasures and fear. Now mara lisstens to all of us all the time and see if our wish is Nibbana and hinder that, i believe that seems to be his deva power unlike other devas, but why he is after some more than others. And it is not a matter of attracting beings who are like you because Mara went after and bothered the Buddha, Rahula and many other monks by striking fear in their hearts or interrupting them when they would speak, so it seems he and his malevolent horde of devass go after good wholesome people too, especially them I think, I think it is a challenge for them to corrupt good people make them like them or to encourage us to let go of our wishes for Nibbana. Just reading the Mara section in Samyutta Nikāya will give idea what he does. These voices bother me greatly, like will not leave me alone. I have played Namaskaraya, Tisarana Vandana, Ratana sutta, I pay homage and do salutation, do loving kindness and share merits, take refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha but still nothing. And experience strange synchronicities. Im thinking these are the work of malevolent devas. But do not know how get them to stop. Should I get an exorcism, I don’t know from what religion though. If only Buddhist monks did exorcism or something to deter malevolent devas/spirits. Did Venerable Waharaka ever talk about these deva that bother people constantly and what to do about it?

      Now I am wondering why this could be happening to me. What bad kamma I could have done.

      Please I ask you of your favor. In the past if I’ve been disrespectful to any of you this  possiblly could be happening because of that. I ask that you please forgive me for me any time I have disrespected you and hurt you or done any wrong to you.

      And please advise me on my situation. My wish is to become a Sotapanna, meet an Ariya in USA, or maybe even go to Sri Lanka and meet a disciple of Venerable Waharaka and hear Desana by them and become a Sotapanna. I have listened to audio desanas but when those voices confused me my faith in Lord Buddha and the Dhamma wavered so I got my answer I am definitely not a Sotapanna unfortunately. I want my Path to be easier or easy but it is very difficult, I can barely leave my house myself or be independent like an adult because my OCD since childhood has left me dependent and not in the greatest place psychologically.

    • #23717
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Hello Upekkha,

      Sorry to hear about your problems.

      I do not think it is the Mara (or more precisely Mara Devaputta), is the one who is making these problems. As I have discussed several times (see the links below), Mara Devapuatta is a deva of the highest deva realm. He wants people to do good deeds and be born as devas like him. However, he does not like people following Buddha Dhamma, because the Buddha has taught that one should pursue Nibbbana, and not strive to be born a deva.

      There are “really bad beings” who try to confuse people and get them into trouble. Since you have had some problems in the past, you may have become a target. It is good that you are continuing those good practices, and with time I believe you be able to overcome these influences.

      From your description it is not quite clear whether this “voice” wants you to do bad things or just stop following Buddha Dhamma.

      Also, I do not think past discussions at this forum would have anything to do with your situation.

      Following links may provide some more information:

      What Does Buddha Dhamma Say about Creator, Satan, Angels, and Demons?“.

      Attitude towards kamaloka devas“, which was discussion at this forum some time back.

    • #23721
      Tobias G
      Participant

      Hi Upekkha,
      maybe you can ask the “voice” what it wants, or you request the “voice” to leave. You could prepare this by taking a good meditation position, calm down and then start to talk with the being, also ask for forgiveness.

      With metta

    • #23738
      firewns
      Participant

      Hi Upekkha,

      Do you hear these ‘voices’ when you are taking clonazepam or when you are not taking medications? It could be that those medications are not working as well as intended in your case, or you could have developed tolerance to those medications, requiring higher and higher dosages in order for them to work, or you could have developed these conditions as withdrawal symptoms for not taking the medications as prescribed.

      Furthermore, the long-term use of neuroleptics (which are medications primarily used to manage psychosis, principally in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder) may result in tardive dyskinesia, symptoms of which might include involuntary movements of the tongue.

      Thus it is important to realize that there could be neurological causes for what you are experiencing, and to do your best to manage these biological causes to the best of your ability so that their symptoms do not intrude upon your perceptions of reality.

      If other beings are causing your experiences, then you may want to radiate metta and karuna to them. But before you do that, please radiate metta and karuna to yourself too, in case these experiences are due to namarupa manifesting due to harmful vinnana (or your inner subconscious wreaking havoc on your perceptions). Afterwards, please make sure that you are calm first, like what Tobias suggests, and then address them with respect.

      After all, in the Dhammapada, The Buddha did comment along the lines of ‘hatred can never be quelled by hatred; it can only be quelled by love’. In addition, when Devadatta tried to harm the Buddha by setting an elephant on Him, the Buddha was able to tame the elephant by radiating metta towards it. In yet another sutta, I think, a bhikkhu was bitten by a snake, and the Buddha commented that if the bhikkhu had more metta, the snake would not have bitten him.

      In case any beings bothering you are actually pretas, the Janussonin Sutta: To Janussonin (AN 10.177) could help.

      In the sutta, the Buddha said that any dana dedicated to dead relatives can only be partaken if the dead relatives were reborn as pretas, and not devas, humans, animals or hell-beings. You might ask the being if he or she is a dead relative reborn as a preta and whether he or she would like you to dedicate any merits or gifts to them. I hope this does not scare you, but it is something you can consider if it is helpful.

      Lastly please do continue to perform meritorious acts such as dana, pattidana, rejoicing in the merits of others, sila, bhavana, reverence to worthy ones, service such as cleaning holy places, monasteries and stupas, hearing the Dhamma, teaching the Dhamma, and correcting any wrong views you may have.

      I really hope this helps! May you and all beings be happy, peaceful and healthy, and overcome dukkha!

    • #23741
      y not
      Participant

      Upekkha,

      To add to what Lal, Tobias and firewrns said:

      In my life I have taken only one single pill prescribed by a psychiatrist, an anti-depressant, and flushed the rest in the toilet. The effect on my brain was..heat at the temples and an almost uncontrollable restlessness of mind and body, wanting to eject myself out of my body. No voices, visions and hallucinations, though. The case is different from what you describe, but……

      I have always mistrusted all oral medication. Not that they are not beneficial, most of them are, at least in the short run. But keep in mind that medicines are an industry. The primary aim is profit; even when the possibility of adverse side-effects is admitted, the product is put on the market nevertheless. When then it is announced that there are indeed side-effects, the product is immediately replaced by another one, so the business goes on. But it is you who has to go through those side effects.

      So first thing I would stop taking all medication. Then, as suggested by the others above, concentrate on Dhamma in its various aspects. Unless something mundane takes priority at a given moment, for the rest of the time be mindful of the Buddha the Dhamma and the Sangha.

      May the blessings of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha be with you always!

    • #23746
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Those are good comments by Tobias, firewns and y not.

      However, it may not be good idea to do this: “So first thing I would stop taking all medication”.

      Each personal situation is unique. In many cases, medications can help.

      We need also to realize that some kamma vipaka CANNOT be overcome just by following the Eightfold Path, even though it CAN help in some cases.
      – Even the Buddha had to suffer the consequences of kamma vipaka. When he was injured by Devadatta, he was treated for that by his personal physician, Jivaka.
      – However, one WILL BE able to remove ALL FUTURE SUFFERING by following the Path.

    • #27740
      Lvalio
      Participant

      Hello Upekkha,
      I am very sorry about it and I did not see your comment in due course.
      But maybe I can still help… So I’m going to make a comment
      I’ve been a doctor for a long time and I have an employee (assistant) in my home who had exactly these symptoms. He sought the Public Health Service in São Paulo, Brazil and was medicated with Olanzapine (see below):
      “Olanzapine is a medication that works in the brain to treat schizophrenia. It is also known as a second-generation antipsychotic (SGA) or atypical antipsychotic. Olanzapine rebalances dopamine and serotonin to improve thinking, mood, and behavior.
      Olanzapine (Zyprexa) | NAMI: National Alliance on Mental …”
      And he’s been using this medication for three years. With that he became completely normal. Never heard voices again, married and has two children and lives very well with his wife…
      I hope you have managed to regain your health and I want to tell you all that I am here for advice for any questions about physical health…(to all of you)…
      My email is: [email protected]
      Thank you very much to all of you.
      Anumodana

    • #27741
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Thank you for the offer of help, Lvalio.

      I have alerted upekkha by email about your post. Hopefully, she will get to read it. She has not commented at the forum for a little while.

    • #27772
      cubibobi
      Participant

      Hello Upekkha,

      In my native country, stories of disturbances by invisible beings (as we call them) abound.

      If the affected person seeks out a Theravada Bhikkhu, the suggestion is almost universal: cultivate sila and dana, and practice recollection of your effort with joy.

      For sila, it means the 5 precepts, and the formula is somewhat like this:

        Take the 5 precepts at the beginning of the day.
        Observe them scrupulously for that day.
        Rejoice in your effort at the end of the day.
        Should you break a precept or more during the day, then have a moment of repentance, forgive yourself, and reset.
        Repeat the process the next day.

      For dana, it usually involves one or more of the following:

        Financial donation to Buddhist monasteries
        Giving service to Buddhist monasteries
        Providing meals to the sangha
        Releasing life (usually fish and birds)
        etc.

      This list is very culturally-based; they are just examples. The point is that whatever generous activities you engage in, recollect them with joy (sadhu) daily.

      Of course, we don’t know for sure that invisible beings are involved here in what you’re going through. Nevertheless, sila and dana are wholesome factors in the path. You mentioned your wish to become a sotapanna and meet an ariya in the US. Sila and dana contribute to the path toward a sotapanna in the long run (in the short term, they can bring gladness to the mind); and I believe there are ariyā in the forums here at puredhamma.net.

      You’ve come to the right place online, and you are not alone. We are all striving for the sotapanna stage, and we seek guidance and support each other toward that goal here.

      One final thought having to do with medication. Obviously, it’s your doctor’s and your decision about what medication to take. However, if you keep good records of what happen throughout the day, it can provide valuable feedback to the doctor. For example:

      What time did you take what medicine
      The times the “voices” happened, and what they said

      Best wishes to you.
      Lang

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