Reply To: Post on “Salāyatana Are Not Sense Faculties”


1. Regarding #6 of “Saḷāyatana Are Not Sense Faculties“: 

I have revised it as follows:

“6. As in the case of the five aggregates, the twelve āyatana are categorized as past, present, and paccuppanna (“present”), as pointed out above.

  • That makes sense since the six internal and five external āyatana takes into account the rupakkhandha
  • The sixth external āyatana (dhammā) incorporates the kamma viññāṇa; thus, it can be represented by the viññāṇa aggregate.Nāmagotta contains all records of the vipāka viññāṇa, and thus, can be represented by the first three mental aggregates.
  • Even though nāmagotta are not dhammā, they come to mind as dhammā when we recall them. I have explained that in the forum (but I should write a post to explain it fully.) See comment #40356 (on September 14, 2022, at 2:42 pm) in the thread “Post on ‘Nāmagotta, Bhava, Kamma Bīja, and Mano Loka (Mind Plane)’

So, now there should not be any discrepancies regarding that.


2. Dosakkhayo wrote next: 

“Laydhammafollower said in #44645:

“RūpakKhanda is not stored, it is generated as needed from other four aggregates.

When memory is recalled, Rūpakkhanda is regenerated from four aggregates stored in kamma bhava.

And this process of recalling involves energy. So, that is why dhamma comes to mind as dhammā.”

But lal said in #44649:

“1. Rūpakkhanda is preserved in nāmalōka as namagotta. It is just a record without any energy.

2. So, there are two types of entities in the nāmalōka: (i) dhammā with kammic energy and (ii) namagotta without energy.
– dhammā can “come back” to our minds on their own. That is how kamma vipaka takes place. When the conditions are right, they bring vipaka.”

  • Hopefully, that is resolved with #1 above.


3. Dosakkhayo wrote next:

“And, Phassa (Contact) – Contact With Pasāda Rupa said:

Cakkhāyatana Is Cakkhu Pasāda Rupa
3. Cakkhāyatana is not the eyes. The “seeing” takes place in the mind, and the “seat of the mind” is the hadaya vatthu. The image captured by the eyes gets transmitted to the cakkhu pasāda rupa, which transfers the image to the hadaya vatthu.”

I think this post says clearly that kammaja kaya is ayatana.”

  • No. It does not. Where does it say that?


4. Q1: Rupakkhandha contains paccuppana kammaja kaya? – I think it does not. 

  • Why not? Any rupa is just registered in the mind even at the moment of seeing, hearing, etc!
  • External rupa are made of satara maha bhuta. Yes. You are completely wrong about paccuppana rupa. What is registered in mind is not satara maha bhuta.


5. Q2: Rupakkhandha contains manāyatana?

  • No. Any ayatana is not maha bhuta. The hadaya vatthu is made of maha bhuta. But when it is used as manāyatana it is just a state of mind.


I think contemplating the above can provide answers to other questions. 

  • To emphasize: There are two types of vinnana: vipaka vinnana and kamma vinnana. Kamma vinnana have energy (dhammā.)
  • vipaka part of the vinnana aggregate incorporates the first three mental aggregates and thus can be represented by the first three aggregates. That is namagotta.