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Appreciate the replies, y’all.
I think I ended up ranting more than I should have. I am happy to share though that I have accepted a job offer from a Fortune 100 company here in Ohio. It happened really quick but it looks like I will stay in the US for a little longer than I thought and it is a great opportunity to get more stable. Regarding finding the person I shared a genuine interaction with, I’ve decided to drop the desperation. I moved on 3 years ago because I was younger and unsure. I think I can move on now with more wisdom and because it looks like I’ve hit a dead end trying to find them. I do plan to visit a mental health professional to discuss these issues.
I will also share that the end goal for me is to discover the truth. Even getting to “jānato” stage sounds like a major milestone and I don’t really care much about “labels”. With that said, I do not intend to be too hard on myself and want to let fate grow me. Hopefully, there will be more growth opportunities as time goes on. If it is better to refrain from bringing up such personal issues in the forum, please let me know.
Thanks again!
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Thanks a lot for the detailed reply, Dr. Lal. My mental health is slowly getting better and I plan not to strain it much for now. I have some thoughts to share which I will do in a few days. Thanks again to everyone else who joined the thread. If you have anything else to share which could be helpful, please do so.
TripleGemStudent said, “Hello Taryal, may you and all of us living beings be and stay well.
Some mundane things I would like to ask you that might help to better share the related information to your situation.
#1. How would you say your diet is? For example, what types of food do you eat. Do you eat a little, moderate or often eat?
#2. Do you have any stomach or digestive issues?”
Hi TripleGemStudent, thank you for taking the time to comment and sharing your compassionate words towards the well being of all beings. Here are my answers to your questions:
- My diet tends to a traditional Nepali style diet. In the morning, I like to drink chai tea with 1 or 2 slices of bread. Couple hours later, I like to have lunch which is Dal Bhat Tarkari (Rice, Lentil Soup and vegetables) and my dinner in the evening is the same. Sometimes, I also like to consume fruits like banana, orange, etc. and snacks like cup noodles, granola bar, etc. So I would say that my diet is on the moderate side. Nowadays though, if I be fully honest, my appetite hasn’t been that high because of the anxiety attacks.
- No stomach issues that I am aware of. I weight about 147 lbs and am 6 feet tall, which I think partially puts me on the skinny spectrum.
Please let me know if you have any other questions. I am looking forward to hearing from you.
Dr. Lal said, “I read Taryal’s post carefully and would like to ask him some questions. Please feel free to reply to only those you feel comfortable answering.
1. What do you mean when you say, “Long story short, I became a Dhamma practitioner and I am happy to say that so much of my mental vexations naturally went away.” Briefly explain (only if you feel comfortable) what the ‘practice’ means.
2. Do you believe in rebirth? How much do you understand about concepts like the anicca nature and Paticca Samuppada?
- Have you read the post “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream“?
- Have you read my posts on (distorted) saññā? If so, what do you think are the major implications of it?
3. Regardless of whether you answer those or to what extent, I can make some general comments. My questions are designed to gauge your level of understanding, so that I MAY BE able to provide some specific suggestions. I know that you are a well-educated and intelligent young person. But those are different from “understanding of Buddha’s teachings.” Please take your time to respond.”
I’m sorry for not explaining how I started practicing Buddha’s teachings. I didn’t want for this post to be too long. But here are my quick answers to your questions:
- By ‘practice’, I almost exclusively meant insight meditation (vipassana). I’ve spent a lot of time going over blogs in this website and discourses from Jethavanarama Monastery which include concepts like Tilakkhana (anicca, anatta, dukkha), Paticca Samuppada, Pleasure & Vexation cycle, etc. (edited to add: I’ve also practiced metta where I wish the other person to be free from suffering no matter whether we had issues or not. I feel like my tendency to get angry has gone down tremendously.)
- Yes, I do believe in rebirth. I have noticed that this is a fundamental axiom of Buddha dhamma and all the other concepts integrate together with this foundation. Outside Dhamma, I have also spent a lot of time going over studies in Near Death Experiences (NDEs) and children recalling past lives, mostly from the University of Virginia’s Division of Perceptual Studies, which I find to be compelling and compatible with Buddha’s teachings. But I will also say that I don’t have the ability to recall past lives or have had any “supernatural” experience that convince me without a shadow of a doubt that gandhabbas and para loka are real. I am faithful enough to the Dhamma that make them part of my worldview.
- I understand the anicca nature as “inability to main things to our liking in the long run”. We will inevitably die with future uncertain and if one stays in this world without attaining a magga phala (or being a bodhi satta), rebirth in the apaya is difficult to avoid. So in the long run, one is helpless. Paticca Samuppada elucidates this issue in more detail by explaining how causes and conditions bring their results, without it having anything to do with an unchanging self or soul. This includes the aspect that explains how much of what happens in our mind after receiving sensory inputs follow a series of conditionality chain that lead to different mental states based on our gati. Basically, this process is not under our complete control but it is also not random. The other aspect goes over how this leads to rebirth (cuti patisandhi, jati, bhava, etc.).
- Yes, I have read several posts on (distorted) saññā. I used a mantra to remember this concept that is, “We have to take our perception seriously but it does not obligate us to take it literally.” For example, a human is rightfully disgusted by rotten food because consuming it would create problems in the body. But that wouldn’t be the case for a pig. Similarly, a heterosexual man could be attracted to the sight of a woman’s body, not because it is intrinsically of attractive nature but because his perception is distorted into viewing it as attractive. Neuroscientists describe it as an evolutionary trait of reproduction. So what I understand to be its implication is that since our perceptions of worldly things are essentially fabricated to be viewed a certain way and built into our bodies, we don’t need to be enslaved by them. We need to take them seriously (like it’s not a good idea to consume rotten food) but this understanding can be used to detach from the illusory “beauty” or even “ugliness” of the external world, which combined with Tilakkhana elucidate the futility and danger of craving sensory pleasure. (I have found myself struggling to apply this when I look at certain women. The harmful conditioning from pornography has lasted for over a decade and it feels utterly difficult to get out of it. I’ve been telling myself that since detachment happens in stages, I could take the time to be intimate with a woman which would help me understand what it’s actually like and whether my fantasies are realistic or useful.)
I briefly summarized my answers. Please feel free to correct me if I said something wrong or ask more clarifying questions. I really appreciate you taking the time to consider helping me out.
Hi Gad, it’s indeed been a while. Thank you for your comment and I am sorry to hear that you’re also experiencing some mental toxicity. I think your advice to visit a therapist is great, since they’re trained to provide immediate solutions to such lay issues. Are you aware of any medications that could be useful?
May you be free from all mental suffering too.
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Few indeed have the courage to acknowledge their flaws and admit their mistakes. Though I’m late, I want to commend Jittananto for doing so and also extend my sincere apology to him and everyone else in this thread—Buddhists and non-Buddhists alike. No matter how flawed someone else’s beliefs may appear to be, deprecating them with harsh words is never a noble deed. I, too, recognize that I’m not perfect and at times, I don’t realize that my spontaneity might negatively affect others. Having struggled with anger issues throughout my life, I’ve often found it difficult to tolerate environments or perspectives that I’ve perceived as “idiotic” or “nonsensical.” And I won’t deny that it used to be much worse before encountering the Dhamma. It has taken a lot of work for me to get to where I am but this is another sign that there’s a lot more to be done. I would like to make it known that I’ve had friends who are Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Agnostics, Mahayanists, and more, and have no intention in wishing or causing harm to any of them. We are all in this world together trying to figure out what it means to exist and our struggles are very real. The worst thing we can do is tear each other down.
I also want to address a possible misunderstanding. Some may have taken my words as criticism of Jethavanarama Monastery, but that was never my intent. I have personally spoken to the monks there and have nothing but respect for them and their dedication. They were the ones who taught me many fundamental concepts like cause and effect, pleasure and vexation, etc. that filled important gaps in my understanding. My comment was never meant to accuse them of sugarcoating the truth; it was simply an attempt at genuine critique. If my words gave the wrong impression, I deeply regret that.
“Bhikkhus, don’t get into arguments, such as:
“You don’t understand this teaching and training. I understand this teaching and training. What, you understand this teaching and training? You’re practicing wrong. I’m practicing right. I stay on topic, you don’t. You said last what you should have said first. You said first what you should have said last. What you’ve thought so much about has been disproved. Your doctrine is refuted. Go on, save your doctrine! You’re trapped; get yourself out of this—if you can!”
Why is that? Because those discussions aren’t beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment.”
“Even if low-down bandits were to sever you limb from limb with a two-handed saw, anyone who had a malevolent thought on that account would not be following my instructions. If that happens, you should train like this: ‘Our minds will not degenerate. We will utter no harsh words. We will remain full of sympathy, with a heart of love and no secret hate. We will meditate, spreading a heart of love to that person. And with them as a basis, we will meditate, spreading a heart full of love to everyone in the world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.’ That’s how you should train.”
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I don’t take orders from sensitive people but I’ll make sure this is my last response to calm you down.
You know nothing about me so I think you should refrain from making such silly accusations. I will continue to stand by what I believe and do not care how it makes you feel. If Bible/Quran/Bhagavad Geeta can lead you to “Nibbana”, why bother looking into the Pali Canon (Buddha’s teachings)? Making a statement like that can be misleading and that is what I’ve seen in some of the Jethavanarama discourses.
I believe so. I too find it strange to see how liberal they sound in some of their discourses. But when I spoke to monks personally, they had a different attitude. My best guess is that in their public discourses, they try to sound more tolerant or accepting of non-Buddhist ideas, perhaps to avoid controversy or appeal to a wider audience.
Jittananto wrote: “If Buddha Dhamma increases your hatred towards non-Buddhists you are no better than all these radicals.”
I’m sorry but I do not understand how my comments count as “hatred towards non-Buddhists.” I’ve always been honest and have no interest in sugarcoating things just to please others. If my honesty comes across as “hateful” to you, that likely has more to do with your own interpretation than my intent. This is probably why you said: “One thing I notice on this forum, some insult other religions as idiots and imbeciles. This is a wrong speech and, therefore, an Akusala Kamma. You accumulate demerit no matter the target of your insult. “
I agree that insults made out of malice aren’t ideal, but even the Buddha used words like “fool” and “uninformed run-of-the-mill” to describe ignorance. In this thread, I was specifically referring to zealots who aggressively push extreme Abrahamic propaganda. If someone is being an idiot, I don’t see how it’s wrong to call them out for what they are.
“What do you know about Jesus and Muhammad?? I know that many Indians and Nepalese have hatred towards everything related to Islam and Arabs. How will this hatred lead you to Nibbāna?! I understand that according to Buddha Dhamma, they are wrong, but can you say with certainty that you are free from micchādiṭṭhi and that you are sotāpanna??!”
As for Jesus and Muhammad, I don’t even know if they existed. My critique is of the scriptures, not the individuals they endorse (who may or may not be real). For you to say, “many Indians and Nepalese hate Islam and Arabs” is a broad generalization and an unfair way to associate me with that sentiment. I evaluate religious doctrines based on their content, not based on the ethnicity or background of their followers. The Abrahamic scriptures contain numerous scientifically inaccurate claims and endorse outdated moral practices such as slavery, stoning, and genocide. Pointing out these flaws is not an expression of hatred.
“Most Venerable Bhante Nivanthapa Thero (Abbot of the monastery) told the audience, “Give me the bible, the Quran and the Bhagavad Gita, and I will show you Nibbāna.””
I don’t think he was being literal. I’ve listened to his discourses, and he has made it clear that other religions don’t lead to Nibbāna. The monastery takes a more diplomatic approach, likely because people today tend to be easily offended. But I don’t run a monastery, so I don’t feel the need to soften my words in the same way.
At the end of the day, my goal is not to appease or offend but to speak the truth as I see it. If someone finds that offensive, perhaps it is worth reflecting on why that is the case.
People who wrote those “holy books” had no clue about “distorted perception” so instead of pointing out the delusions of the mind, they blame the women instead. Little did the so-called “prophet” know that an anagami could be swarmed by naked women and not generate a trace of lust.
But like mentioned above, dwelling over such bastards-led farce is a waste of time and would only contribute to further agitating our minds. To be bothered less by such worldly issues, we have to create the environment that’ll help trigger the meritorious causes, which can be done by listening, reading, and practicing Dhamma. I strongly suggest attending online personal Dhamma talks with the monks at Jethavanarama as much as possible. We can use our time to do beneficial things instead. That’s what we have control over!
Additionally, if you’re interested in a philosophy that’ll help you be more resilient in your lay life, I also recommend Stoicism.
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“How do you (or scientists) know that the movement of tectonic plates could not be due to the shifting of a liquid mass underneath it?”
The primary reason is that seismic waves don’t indicate the presence of a large liquid layer beneath the crust. If there were an ocean-like layer under the plates, we would expect clear seismic wave disruptions, but we don’t see this.
“The Buddha did not provide any details, and I will not speculate. But my point is no one knows for sure. Yes. The shifting of tectonic plates could be the “immediate cause” But that could be due to the other reasons. We don’t know enough about the Earth’s core to say for sure.”
That’s a fair perspective but the reason I was concerned was because the sutta’s description sounded quite basic and medieval. There isn’t an evidence that weather conditions can influence earthquakes short term, but in the long term the movement of the oceans could have an impact. I apologize if I sound like a nitpicker but the mind is often curious. Buddha had to adjust his discourses to people of his time who had a very limited understanding of the world and in his own words, he said he only teaches 2 things – suffering and the end of suffering, which perhaps doesn’t include explaining physical details like seismography.
But I would still like to discuss the sutta though. It lists the causes for “great earthquakes”, which doesn’t seem to include small foreshocks. Do we know if the whole planet (or a big portion of it) shakes when one of the listed events occur? I also wonder which one of the 8 causes did Ananda experience that led him to ask the question to Buddha.
Yash wrote:
“Another thing I realised that I overthink alot. Whenever I see people of different religions on YouTube talk about how their religion is true and everything else is false and if you don’t follow them, you will be burnt in hell forever. This is about abrahmic religions. These things kind of depress me and make me anxious and I feel like why do they say this? Whats the evidence for their such claims? Then on further research I found how every such religion has found a way to claim that their holy books contain all the scientific verses.”
“I understand that sir. But it happens automatically. That’s why I also tried to cultivate jhanas along with the dhamma to overcome such nonsense thoughts.”
Mind is a machine that runs on views. If you’re annoyed by the things that dogmatic people say, it is a reflection of your mental tendency (gati). Your views influence a subconscious algorithm that will automatically bring a reaction (output) when a corresponding input is provided. In your case, it sounds like your mind is attached with aversion (dosa). From my practice, I think that the only way of combating this issue is through the realization of right views.
Until the eradication of kama raga, we can only be tentative about the deep workings of the world. But we can do our best by carefully examining whatever worldview is presented to us. On the internet, you will find 100 different religion videos that say 100 different things that contradict each other. To list a few examples – “Accept Jesus or rot in hell”, “Believe Allah or die an eternal death”, “Chant Namo Amitabha to enter pure land”, “Hare Ram for good karma”, etc. They all claim that they’re speaking truth, but can they all be right? No, but they can certainly all be wrong. I remember getting into a heated fight with a few Muslims online when they praised the Islamic adultery punishment of 100 lashes. A girl (a minor!) was apprehended and lashed repeatedly and forcefully woken up even after she fainted to make sure that 100 painful lashes were delivered. Those idiots were not only praising such an inhumane action but insisting that they should be strictly enforced into all Islamic countries. I confronted them by asking who the hell are they to decide what a woman should do with her body. What rights do they have to impose their dogmatic beliefs onto others? They responded by trying to defend the authority of the Quran and one of the things that they told me was that it contains many “scientific verses” – one of which provides an accurate description of the human embryo formation. I decided to investigate it, only to end up laughing at their stupidity and mourning for those who have to put up with it.
“Man We did create from a quintessence of clay. Then we placed him as a drop of sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed. Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood. Then out of that clot We made a fetus lump. Then We made out of that lump bones, and clothed the bones with flesh. Then We developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the Best to create!” (23:12-14)
Religious people like to twist their interpretations to pretend that their holy books contain “scientific verses”. But do you think the above is even remotely similar to how embryogenesis actually works? Every single sentence above has an error.
“Man We did create from a quintessence of clay.”
A clay is primarily made up of inorganic compounds like silica and alumina, but a human body is primarily made up of organic compounds and water.
“Then we placed him as a drop of sperm in a place of rest, firmly fixed.”
A sperm cell continues to move until it fertilizes with the ovum, after which a zygote is formed and the sperm cell practically disappears. There is no “resting” for a “drop of sperm” and it is certainly not “firmly fixed”.
“Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood.”
A zygote is formed by the coitus of the parents, during which the mother must be in season. In other words, there can’t be an embryo without the ovum but this crucial aspect is not even mentioned.
“Then out of that clot We made a fetus lump.”
A blood clot is a gel-like mass that is formed in the blood at the site of an injury, primarily to seal further blood loss. An embryo is not a “clot”. It is a multicellular organism that continually grows.
“Then We made out of that lump bones, and clothed the bones with flesh.”
The skeletal system forms gradually in 2 ways – Intramembranous ossification and Endochondral ossification. This process continues throughout the fetal life so it makes no sense to say that a lump of bones was created and stitched with the flesh.
“Then We developed out of it another creature.”
Embryogenesis shows that an embryo goes through 20 different stages within the first 23 days. Based on that, it is different at each stage, so what the hell does “another creature” mean?
“So blessed be Allah, the Best to create!”
Lol! Pregnancy is an utterly stressful process that puts the mother and the baby through insane risks and suffering. Even an accidental point mutation can have a devastating consequence. Some are even raped and forced into pregnancy (that includes children). And it is not just humans that get pregnant, animals do too and their suffering is even worse as they also need to bear with the risk of predators. So I DO NOT understand how anyone can be ignorant enough to think that this process is worthy of any praise.
This is just one example. The so-called holy books of the worldly religions are frequently littered with scientific errors like “earth being created before the stars and that they can fall from the heaven, disease caused due to demons, usage of geocentric model, implication of 6000 years old earth, etc.” (of course, I am talking about Abrahamic religions here but it’s not limited to that). A common excuse is asserting that they’re “metaphors” meant not to be taken literally. When the claims are factually false, they’re metaphors but when they’re somewhat right, they’re “scientific verses”. That is their hypocrisy.
I didn’t do the above analysis to waste anyone’s time but to attempt to provide some insights because I myself have gone through similar experience. I can’t control what other people do. But what frustrates me the most is that the mere existence of these people “blocks” the path of many others who could have the potential to comprehend the profound teachings of Buddha. A good example is the emerging studies of “Near Death Experiences” which is often discarded without a second thought by even the most well known scientists like Richard Dawkins and Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Any implication of the word “supernatural” can generate discomfort in many bright minds today because they are aware of how nonsensical the worldly religions are, and the last thing you’d wanna do is associate with zealots.
It is an absolute mess and I have personally given up on trying to fix any of it. I can’t change others but I can certainly work on changing myself. There is a very specific reason why a Bhikkhu gives up the lay life and fully embraces the monastic life. Detaching from the worldly mess is an important part of the process.
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“Yet, some babies die within days. How is their destiny determined?”
By making excuses. If one is faith oriented, counterarguments are always secondary. But difficult indeed it is to justify the suffering of babies. Some blame the first humans (“original sin” in Abrahamic faiths) while others blame the babies themselves (“karma” in Hinduism). The former is often scrutinized for its injustice of punishing one for the sins of the other while the latter is criticized for it insinuating cosmic cruelty instead of evoking God’s benevolence.
But the other thing is how incompatible these “faiths” are with observation. Reports from Near Death Experiences clearly disprove the “heaven/hell forever” argument. Even agnostics report encountering dead relatives. How is this possible if they were supposed to be sent to hell or get annihilated? This supports paraloka way more than the “soul” argument. I am surprised to see that even some doctors in the west are dumb enough to endorse Christianity. But perhaps there is little one can know without exposure to Dhamma?
