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I stand corrected. Abhidhamma was completed 250 years after Buddha’s parinibbana in the 3rd council and the Tipitaka was written down in the 4th council.
I noticed this before but if abhidhamma was “invented” by generations of monks after Buddha Gotama, I would expect it to contain many inconsistencies with the Suttas. But so far, I have not seen any significant contradiction.
Additionally, the so-called “scholars” who make those statements are non-ariyas who frequently make mistakes in their translations of the Pali Tipitaka. So I wouldn’t trust them. That being said, it has been stated that Abhidhamma in its final form was completed in the 4th Buddhist Council, almost 5 centuries after our Sammasambuddha. But the main framework was already there in the 1st council:
“21. Pañcasatikakkhandhaka” section of the “Cūḷavagga” of the Vinaya Piṭaka contains a small section at the end called Tassuddānaṁ which summarizes the events of the First Buddhist Council. It contains this verse: “Upāliṁ vinayaṁ pucchi, suttantānandapaṇḍitaṁ; Piṭakaṁ tīṇi saṅgītiṁ,akaṁsu jinasāvakā.”
- That says: “Venerable Upāli recited the Vinaya (Upāliṁ vinayaṁ pucchi,) Ven. Ananda recited the Suttas (suttantānandapaṇḍitaṁor sutta ānanda paṇḍitaṁ), and all of the 500 Arahants present recited ALL THREE Piṭaka (Piṭakaṁ tīṇi saṅgītiṁ,akaṁsu jinasāvakā.)
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Those Ariyas below the Arahant stage may have minor wrong views (but not the three samyojana of sakkaya ditthi, vicikiccha, silabbata paramasa).
In my country (Nepal), people are heavily influenced by silabbata paramasa. This includes my family members who tried to spam me with rituals as soon as I came to visit. While they probably don’t have bad intentions, I think I am educated enough to know that visiting a land rumored as “sacred” or taking a bath in a lake doesn’t wash anyone’s “sins”. I get told logicless statements like “let’s do this pooja, your income will improve” or “don’t travel in these specific days, it can cause misfortune”, etc.
This has made think it would be utterly difficult for me to effectively share the Dhamma in my home community. While I am a bit saddened to see my country infected with the business minded Pundit culture, I would like for my family members to enter the Noble stream. But I don’t know if I am capable of doing so right now (I am not an Anagami). Is there any specific approach that Buddha recommended in situations like these? I am little hesitant to wait as well since there is no certainty of when death will transpire. Any advice here would be appreciated.
Starting at 16.8, the Pali and Sutta Central translations are as follows:
Itthī ca purisaṁ ativelaṁ upanijjhāyati puriso ca itthiṁ.
Women spent too much time gazing at men, and men at women.
Tesaṁ ativelaṁ aññamaññaṁ upanijjhāyataṁ sārāgo udapādi, pariḷāho kāyasmiṁ okkami.
They became lustful, and their bodies burned with fever.
Te pariḷāhapaccayā methunaṁ dhammaṁ paṭiseviṁsu.
Due to this fever they had sex with each other.
Ye kho pana te, vāseṭṭha, tena samayena sattā passanti methunaṁ dhammaṁ paṭisevante, aññe paṁsuṁ khipanti, aññe seṭṭhiṁ khipanti, aññe gomayaṁ khipanti:
Those who saw them having sex pelted them with dirt, clods, or cow-dung, saying,
nassa asuci, nassa asucī’ti.
‘Get lost, filth! Get lost, filth!
‘Kathañhi nāma satto sattassa evarūpaṁ karissatī’ti.
How on earth can one being do that to another?’
Tadetarahipi manussā ekaccesu janapadesu vadhuyā nibbuyhamānāya aññe paṁsuṁ khipanti, aññe seṭṭhiṁ khipanti, aññe gomayaṁ khipanti.
And even today people in some countries, when carrying a bride off, pelt her with dirt, clods, or cow-dung.
Chase’s interview took place in 1994, meaning there is approximately a 129-year gap between his life as a black soldier and his current life as a red-headed boy.
As if manussa bhava isn’t rare enough, manussa jati seems even more rare. If there are trillions of human gandhabbas in the paraloka, considering that human population is 8.2 billion, I would think that many gandhabbas would die without even getting a human birth (and even those that do would be miserable after death due to constant cravings). Most of them will likely grasp an apaya bhava, and be born instantaneously to experience extreme anguish if not an animal bhava. If it is an animal, getting an animal jati doesn’t seem hard. Mammals like dog could have up to a dozen puppies in one litter, reptiles like turtle can lay up to 110 eggs, and even worse crustaceans like crab can lay millions.
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Each birth ends in death with future uncertain. While a birth in higher realm would contain little suffering, that is also temporary and birth in the apaya (where most existences are) isn’t avoidable for those below the sotapanna stage, so there is net suffering. Additionally, the “pleasures” experienced in the higher realms are made up by the mind and incomparable to Nibbanic bliss anyway. Thus, the goal is to stop rebirth and end suffering for good. I don’t see why it needs to be more complicated than this.
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I see, thank you for the explanation! The world is more mysterious than we often realize.
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“3. I do not understand what you are trying to say in steps #1 through #5 in your last comment.”
I was referring to the process involved in generating conscious thoughts and taking bodily action, essentially to try to understand how a hadaya vatthu can consciously generate citta. Perhaps, it is a fundamental attribute.
Thank you for suggesting the relevant posts. I will get back after I go through them.
Not an expert but those videos seem to be discussing arupa samapatti states.
Arupa loka is the world of immaterial beings composed only of citta and cetasika (mental factors), without rupa (material form). There are five Arupa Loka corresponding to the five Arupa Jhanas.
- In the following 2 realms only Nama exists without Rupa.
1. Akasanancayatana: the world of infinite space perception
2. Vinnanancayatana: the world of infinite consciousness perception - In the last 3 realms there is neither Nama nor Rupa but the mind is only present. Because there is still residual kamma in the form of Bhavatanha.
3. Akincannayatana: the world of nothingness perception
4. N’evanasannanasannayatana: the world of neither perception nor non-perception
5. Asannasatta: the world of unconscious beings - So one can see that even in the last 3 realms Arahanthood is not attained. Otherwise Namarupa would not be present, it is only suppressed.
Nibbana entails detachment from all 31 realms including the above 5 loka. This underscores the importance of pondering anicca.
1. Step 8 is the critical one. As long as one has not removed certain samyojana/anusaya, that mind will automatically attach to the object if it is “an object of interest.” Conscious thinking is NOT involved.
It is interesting that we talk about a “mind” as if it is a well defined entity, despite knowing that in reality there are only complex manifestations of causes and conditions.
After Step 8, say the person chooses to consciously generate thoughts about the object and walk towards it to “see” it better. Then the following operations would transpire:
- With the aid of kammic energy sustaining the bhava, hadaya vatthu generates cittas.
- Then a signal (kirana) is sent to the mana indriya in the brain
- An electrical activity is generated in the brain which uses energy from food to generate transferrable electrochemical signals
- Via PNS, they are sent to the peripheral parts of the body to cause movement.
- (#3 to 4 takes roughly about 6 seconds (according to Libet’s experiment)
I’d like to confer about the #1 step since the decision is made here. Is there a more detailed mechanism that explains how it happens?
It’s like asking “How do I know that consciousness exists” or “perception “exists while denying it because can not be “seen” yet it is experienced all the time
I think it has to do with fear of death and uncertainty. I remember telling an evangelical that a theory/doctrine that can’t make reliable predictions lacks credibility. Then they said it can’t be predicted whether I “love” my wife or not and foolishly connected it with the idea of Jesus dying on a cross. “In the beginning, God created heaven and earth..”, unfortunately, the universe is not made up of heaven and earth, but of innumerable planetary systems and galaxies that the Bible does not even come close to explaining.
This got me thinking though, of the mechanism necessary for “consciousness”. The following conditions need to line up for eye-consciousness to manifest:
object (arammana) + light + physical eye + Peripheral Nervous System (PNS) + Central Nervous System (Brain/mana indriya) + chakkhu pasada + hadaya vatthu (attention)
- Light reflects off the object
- Photons are received by eye ball
- Neurons from PNS transfer electric signals to Brain
- Brain converts it into a form that chakkhu pasada can receive
- Mana indriya sends ray signal (kirana) to chakkhu pasada rupa
- chakkhu pasada impinges the hadaya vatthu
- If the person is attentive, awareness manifests at this step
So far it is a plain awareness (vipāka viññāṇa). But if it is an object of interest, the initial attachment is automatic. Then the person can choose to generate conscious thoughts about the object or try to avoid it by distracting themselves. I think this is what causes the perception of ‘I’ or ‘me’. But if a single condition above is removed, awareness of the object can not occur. So it is worth noting that “conscious ability” is never constant. It is virtually non-existent while asleep and highly limited in the embryonic stages, but gradually goes up after birth as the baby grows by consuming food. It is sharpest in adulthood but will go down again in old age. This clearly suggests that there is no well-defined essence like a “soul”.
But I am curious about the mechanism involved in conscious thinking (the part after initial vipāka viññāṇa). A human has a large dense brain but cittas are consciously generated in the hadaya vatthu. Is it possible to know how that works?
Hello Venerable Daniel,
Thank you for your inspiring message! I am travelling to my home country Nepal later this year and plan to visit Sri Lanka in January. I would love to meet you in the Jethavanarama Buddhist Monastery.
Regards
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So I am curious to know why the Buddha rejected the commonly held idea of inner self. In other words, how does one know that the true atman/buddha nature does not exist?
I don’t think there is any way to directly prove that something does not exist. So we shall use reasoning and our experience. With that being said, I wrote a post about the approach that one could take to test the legitimacy of a theory/doctrine: Building Confidence in Dhamma
- I concluded that Buddha Dhamma passes that test. Do you disagree?
- Try applying it to the Vedic and Mahayana philosophies you referenced. Do they pass the test?
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All cakkavāla in a loka dhātu remain in that state for billions of years. Toward the latter half of that phase, all those Brahmas start “missing their sensual pleasures” they enjoyed while in the lower dense realms. Their desire to go back to such a way of living creates suddhāṭṭhaka (the fundamental particle in Buddha Dhamma; see below) in abundance; the accumulation of them over billions of years lead to the re-formation of the Sun, Earth, and other planets (cakkavāla.) It happens to all cakkavāla in that loka dhātu.
I didn’t realize Brahmas can desire sensual pleasures. I thought they don’t remember their lives in the kama loka?
