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OK. I read all post of Sōtapanna Stage of Nibbāna subsection. And I found an answer of my question.
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Now I think it’s time to ask the question I wrote in the title as I started this thread.What is the knowing which Sotapanna cannot lose even beyond death?
In the forum“saññākkhandha comprises avijja, or saññā of nicca, sukha, atta”
To infer from this, we can say that sotapanna’s saññākkhandha got permanently changed.
We already know, cultivating sanna of any given concept is different with just memorizing the word or description of it.
What I’m curious about in here is following.
I learned that ariya’s achievement is can not regress.
If one died attained sotapanna stage, one will be born in human realm(or higher realm but in here not think about other case).
The punna iddhi is not common phenomenon. It is not ensured that all Sotapanna has punna iddhi.
Without punna iddhi or cultivate jhana and iddhi one cannot access the previous memory.
Nevertheless, whether one have iddhi, the understanding of sotapanna is never lost.
How far is the understanding that is never lost in the future?
First, of course, the tilakkhana, four noble truths, paticca samuppada belong to the inseparable group.
The aveccappasada to Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha also belong to there.
However, the knowledge of Pali words is not there. This is excluded in that there are individual differences. What I’d like to find is universal knowledge which every sotapanna has.
(1) Does knowing about 31 realm belong to the inseparable group?
(2) Does knowing about gandhabba belong to the inseparable group?
(3) Does knowing about abhidhamma belong to the inseparable group?
“Why cannot they be in both categories?
– Defilements are what lead to future births. Those defilements ARE the bad types of cetasika (asobhana cetasika).”The reason why I thought they cannot be in both categories is (i) there is no amoha cetasika (ii) the amoha cetasika is not paññā.
“10. However, amoha does not mean wisdom (paññā)! Amoha is not a cetasika but is a root cause. It is in all kusala citta in the sense that the immoral cetasika of moha is not present at that moment, i.e., the mind is not “covered.””
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But OK. The six hetu and cetasika overlap each other. Now I got it.So amoha is just an absence of moha. Therefore, according to the law that the sobana cetasika and asobana cetasika cannot be together at the same time, when one do kusala or punna kamma there is no moha in one’s mind, because moha is universal asobana cetasika. Thus there is amoha, because of containing no moha. Right?
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“You are confusing paramatta Dhamma with those present in one’s mind. If all paramatta Dhamma must be with a person, they will never attain Nibbana.”I don’t get the context why you tell me that. I’ve already known that all paramatta Dhamma cannot be with a person.
The point that I’m actually confused about is “amoha is the lokiya version of paññā. And paññā is the lokkuttara version of amoha.” This comment is in here. In the korean puredhamma forum
I’m confused because lal said “Amoha is not a cetasika but is a root cause.”
So, to sum up, amoha is not only the absence of moha but also the expression of extent of paññā cetasika. Right?
OK. Then let’s start first with a Sotapanna Anugami becoming a Sotapanna.
A Sotapanna Anugami must attain the Sotapanna stage in given bhava. Is it right?
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The revised version is good. Thank you for the acceptance of my comment.OK. I was confused because I had interpreted the word “primary” as “most important”. But it was actually meant by “most basic” or “not coming from or dependent on something else”. So now I got it. Lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa, and amoha do not belong to dhatu. Instead, six dhatu come from the six hetu.
But here is another question.
Those six hetu causes everything in 31 realms. i.e. Paramatta Dhamma(except nibbana) are caused by six hetu.
But lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa (except amoha) is also cetasika.
So I guess there are some contextual differences between the lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa as a cetasika and the lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa, and amoha as a six hetu.
Let me know what it is.
OK. From what I understand is hadaya vatthu is the bearer of anusaya. Asavakkhaya happens in here. This certainly helped me understand Gandhabba. Thank you for the good answer lal.
About the “A Sotapanna Anugami will attain the Sotapanna stage before the cuti-patisandhi moment.”
It sounds like a Sotapanna Anugami must attain the Sotapanna stage in given bhava. Is it right? But from what I understand is Sotapanna Anugami has no limit of bhava. After becoming Sotapanna, one is left 7 bhava or less. So I’d like to know about this point.
By the way, the post Dasa Samyōjana – Bonds in Rebirth Process in #10
10. So, it is essential to understand that getting rid of the first three samyōjana involves NOTHING ELSE but comprehending a bit about the true nature of this world, the anicca nature.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting the sentence, in this case there is no problem with it, but the removal of first three samyōjana means the removal of diṭṭhāsava. i.e. It means there is no vipallasa about the anicca. So the statement “a bit about” might be able to have a possibility to mislead to comprehension level of anicca to require becoming sotapanna.
I’m afraid whether I’m pointing out the too minor problem of sentence expression.
I am a Korean who is not familiar with English. When I ask a question on the forum and later someone answers, I often forget to say thank you and it’s a long time before I realize it. Because I used my brain so much to write in English that I lose all my energy after writing. I would like to thank you even now. Thank you both for answering my question.
Please provide the name of the post (like I did above) instead of stating “this post.”
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OK. next time I follow it.I think it is adequate post.
Lal said:
“What I am saying is that we cannot just focus on the rupakkhandha.
– Attachment to rupa cannot be dissociated from those mental aspects arising from the contacts among external and internal rupa.That is why it is “panca upadana khandha” that is dukkha, not just “rupa upadana khandha.””
It gives me quite a lot of insight. You might want to add this to the post so that everyone else can see it.
The point I’m confused about is not the difference between punna kamma and kusala kamma. What I’m confused about is the connection between kusala mula PS and kusala kamma. The description of the process in which dasa kusala happens is kusala mula PS. Is it right? If it’s right, kusala kamma are done with kusala mula sankara, and it can’t be done with punnabhisankara. Therefore, “in the discourse lal said: 34:06 Immoral deeds or dasa akusala are done with apunnabhisankara or bad thoughts in our minds. Good deeds or kusala kamma are done with punnabhisankara.” is kind of inconsistency. Because kusala kamma can not be done with punnabhisankara.
In the discourse lal said:
34:06 Immoral deeds or dasa akusala are done with apunnabhisankhara or bad thoughts in our minds. Good deeds or kusala kamma are done with punnabhisankhara.And 36:53
So, it is important to make this connection. Our sankhara and specifically abhisankhara lead to future lives based on whether they involve dasa akusala or dasa kusala.
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But I learned in here, kusala kamma is different with punna kamma. Punna kamma are done with unnabhisankara, kusala kamma are done by kusala mula sankara.So it kind of confuses me. Are dasa kusala and kusala kamma in different context of each?
