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Homage to Triple Gem.
May i ask about walking meditation techniques that Tipitaka approve or in line with? How do we do Metta Bhavana while walking is there any clear procedure/instruction?
in this english translation Ven.Sona hurt himself because too much “viriya” and desperate/frustrated because not achieved Arahant Stage and want to become “householder/dweller” again.
and first my question is like above, how to do proper Walking Meditation.
and second question is when Ven.Sona get this meditation instruction / training set is he already Ariya (Sotapanna)? if he is then apparently Sotapanna can be frustrated and want to quit “holy life”?
there is enjoy wealth and MAKING MERIT keyword, seem like owning samyojana still there and Silabataparamasa no? making merit to enchant the chance to attain Arahant is this right view or possible? (do Sotapanna has this view that making merit can make someone become Arahant)if he is not Ariya yet then it means just by adjust “viriya” and follow the meditation instruction / training set (which Ven.Sona practice) can propel himself all the way from Anariya person to Sotapanna-Arahant? if it so, can we have that training set too / do you know what that training set is it?
With Metta,
*sincerely appreciate this site :) -
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“May I ask about walking meditation techniques that Tipitaka approves or in line with?”
Meditation can and should be done in all four postures.
– The key here is to understand what is meant by “meditation” or “Bhavanā”Bhavanā is to cultivate the Eightfold Noble Path. That can be done in various ways but is based on two things.
(i) One must understand the Dhamma (which involves learning/contemplation.) That cultivates Samma Ditthi.
(ii) Live one’s life accordingly (in particular pay attention to Samma Sankappa, Samma Vaca, Samma Kammanta, and Samma Ajiva.) Make effort in a sensible, consistent manner (Samma Vayama) and one will automatically get to Samma Samadhi. Samma Samadhi is not necessarily jhana, but that could happen too. That will definitely happen (getting to jhana) when one gets to the Anagami stage.That needs to be done in all four postures and at all times.
It seems to me you (and most people) believe that Bhavanā requires one to sit down like a statue or to just walk up and down calmly (which could be called “formal meditation”). One can contemplate on Dhamma concepts in those two modes. That could be an essential part of the whole process.
– But Bhavanā is NOT limited to those two.
– One must be engaged at all times, making sure to avoid dasa akusala and to cultivate dasa kusala. That is complete Bhavanā or “following the path.”Regarding Ven. Sona’s account: He got “burned up” mentally by making too much of an effort (probably by doing too much of “formal meditation”).
– That could be stressful to the mind.Others just do “formal meditation” for an hour a day or go to a retreat once in several months, and assume that is enough. That is the other extreme.
One needs to stay away from both those extremes and be consistent.
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I agree that Bhavana isn’t only about “formal meditation” session, what i am asking is has Ven.Waharaka Thero gave specific instruction about “formal walking meditation”. the procedure etc
Rain retreat itself is all about Bhavana in formal meditation session (4 posture) which is deemed faster method to purifying mind isnt?
Ven Sona himself seem like attain the Arahant Stage by doing formal session in 4 posture with suitable proportion to him. so i think it might be important to know how to do formal session in each of 4 posture (started with walking meditation because now day we already know sitting session, and i have a doubt regarding walking meditation that taught nowday isnt what Buddha taught).and if you will, may i ask about your opinion about whether Ven.Sona is Ariya/Sotapanna when he received that training instructions? i want to know is it possible for Sotapanna to quit “holy life” and making merit thing (if he is Sotapanna then it mean he has view that making merit will help to attain Arahant Stage)..
*some background (im 28) or progress in knowledge for what i learn from this Teaching is all about cultivating 8 Noble Path with assapassasa method (take in good quality and leave bad quality, to change gati or to mold our gati to becoming like Ariya’s) such as:
avoiding dasa akusala as much as possible, cultivate dasa kusala and do punna kamma with right view/understanding in order to purify action-speech-mind (5 hindrance is weaken/cleaned/ not only suppressed) until certain extent so this mind (i or me) can receptive to Dhamma (Tilakkhana/PS/4 Noble Truth) and attain Ariya Stages.
another question is do you think that people who attain Anariya Jhana when they come across this Teaching will benefit more/faster in attain Ariya Stages?
i have this view that people have many types of gati, some might become Ariya by Cetovimutti or Pannavimutti. So some might attain with or while hearing Desana, some might attain while formal meditation session (sit,walk,stand or laying down) is my view/understanding about Cetovimutti or Pannavimutti flawed?
So based on this view, i’m trying to adjust which faculty (Ceto or Panna) need to be cultivate first (i know both is needed and must be cultivated until certain extent). unfortunately there is no excellent teacher like Bhagava anymore right now who know beings tendency and gati -> give the training set accordingly, we can only analyse by ourself.
its all about consistency and to find suitable method to advance in the Path for this “i/me” with not yet Ariya gati but want some “hacks”. i think if i add walking meditation in my routine maybe it might do the trick or at least help until certain extent, that’s why i want to know how to do proper walking meditation session:)
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I think you fault of understanding Dhamma comes from modern thinking as technology, for example you are looking for a phone that will connect you to “Nibbana” but there is no such thing and rather than putting all the focus on trying to find the right “method” you should stick to enhancing your mental factors as explained for example in Satipatthana, what matters is what you do with your mind, how you understand things with proper view and how do you deal with attachments. You can get rid of attachments without even a second of meditation with the right guidance and energy that supplicate insight, if you want to “see” the way out you need to purify mind first. If you think sitting certain way or moving certain why is the “hack” – that’s a big misunderstanding I would say. That’s to say you can not study Dhamma on your own or even with Lal texts as they are just text-books for teacher to explain you. You need to be in presence or hear audio or have special texts that holds the energy of Buddha Guna that purifies mind, certain suttas holds this energy (that’s why people chant it and enter jhanas). Dhamma is simple but not necessary easy if you are not gifted with a lot of white kamma and merit.
About Sotapanna leaving “the Path” – well I think that may happen, most people after attaining Sotapanna would be probably Neyya type, Neyya from what I understand needs further explanation, either from properly understanding sutta or having the right sutta that push person higher or higher person that can point out to the limits of his attainments like Anagami probably could help Sotapanna better than other Sotapanna. I read somewhere in the suttas that person/monk who wasn’t even Sotapanna helped to move Sotapannas higher by chanting suttas – so suttas holds certain purification effect if you have base you may figure it out but those Sotapannas may be actually higher type of people (above Neyya) this is gray area for me, so I can not really speak deeper about this but on the outside it maybe seemed simple as above but if you try to analyze it deeper it will get complicated and without Buddha insight is hard to judge those things right, and it may turn into guessing game.
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Hello Raja_mw
This is the path of cetovimutti:
– Learn dhamma with curiosity to know about the true nature of the world or what is the reality or what is the truth?
-Engage in Vaci and Kaya Sankharas in accordance of Dhamma, i.e. practice sati and anapana.
-Repeat till you get to this stage where you know why you want to attain nibbana?, ‘This is suffering’, ‘This is the cause of suffering’, ‘This is the way to cease the suffering’. In short you know what should be known just the part left is executing it via Jhanas in a
formal ‘SITTING’ meditation. I think mostly all attained arahantship while sitting.– But the path has many obstacles one of which is restlessness or Uddhacca, while understanding dhamma and Jhanas, it is suppressed so one is ‘Tranquil or at ease’ but it is only removed at arahant stage so we must be aware of this Uddhacca and try not to go back to lower life like Ven Sona in this case and we all have TV, Phone etc so we are more vulnerable so to speak. As mentioned on this site, that ‘nagging’ feeling when we are restless ‘There is nothing to do, what should I do?’
-Leaving the ‘holy life’ means to become a ‘bauddhaya’ and not a ‘bhikkhu’. Both are on the path just bhikkhus are more strict, of course as one bauddhaya will progress he will see the dangers of being idle and will get more and more ‘disciplined’.
-Being a bhikkhu is very conducive for arahantship, it requires days to get there like Ven Mahakassapa.– Meditation in any form be it walking or sitting is contemplating ‘Tillakkhana’ of 5 aggregates, but when one will sit and do it, its likely that one will be tranquil, dwelling in rapture and bodily happiness, so whats the need of even moving a finger.
– But sitting meditation cannot be done at all times as Lal sir mentioned, Ven Sona was ‘burned up’ while practicing walking meditation (I remember), walking meditation means walking contemplating on anicca, dukkha, anatta; if it is some other dhamma concept then one is likely to walk very slowly like ‘someone engaged in deep thinking’ but if its regular tillakhana then one can walk with decent pace and ‘Enjoy’ the piti felt on face.
– Its just a matter of time, cultivate 4 supreme efforts, learn dhamma, when one ‘sees’ the cooling down or Nivana, no need to ask anyone, you know what should be done.
– Regarding ‘procedure’ of walking meditation, I suggest that you should walk after having food, engage in mundane works if not then sitting meditation.– As Lal sir said and I too, ‘Exercises’ like Push ups, squats, Jogging, streching etc can be extremely helpful when Uddhacca is present because you cannot sit, stand or walk nor you want to watch TV or any recreation stuff, you are just ‘restless’. At that time acknowledge that its Uddhacca and the best thing to do at that time is ‘Exercising’.
– Actually, this is not sloth and torpor i.e. Tina Middha because you want to pursue your goal of Nibbana but you just can’t because of Uddhacca. Thats why in many suttas that I read exercising and streching is mentioned as regular course of actions of bhikkhus but we do not have to memorize gathas like them because of Lal sir’s compassionate effort for this site. The point is that we have much more time than a bhikkhu at that time to put effort on ‘understanding’ because we have ‘all dhamma’ available in our hands and we should be grateful and happy for this. So, add exercise to your routine rather than walking meditation this is my suggestion :)“another question is do you think that people who attain Anariya Jhana when they come across this Teaching will benefit more/faster in attain Ariya Stages?”
– Yes it would be easier, because in order to cultivate Jhanas one has to be a Tihetuka (I read on this site Lal sir should correct me if that’s not the case), actually even for a Tihetuka with or without Jhanas understanding dhamma can come at different ‘pace’ best example is of ven culapanthaka who couldn’t memorize even a single gatha in a month and was asked to disrobe by his brother but then Buddha came and gave him instructions and he attained arahantship, he had a blockage point which Buddha was capable to devise.With Metta
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Those are good suggestions by Chrisitan and Sotapanna Anugami.
– There are no “formal guidelines” separately for walking meditation. I think I know why people think there are such “techniques.” Many years ago, I attended a meditation retreat where they taught “walking meditation.” One was supposed to walk slowly just putting one step in front of the other very slowly. It was an embarrassingly foolish exercise. But there were many who seriously engaged in that ritual.Any type of jhana is good.
– But the problem with anariya jhana is that people get “stuck”. They are drawn to the jhanic pleasure may not be able to go beyond that.However, there is an important point regarding jhana.
– It is impossible for one to be “attached to sense pleasures” and be able to cultivate jhana.
– Even to get anariya jhana, one must be living a life without sex and even other types of sense pleasures.
– The point here is that when one overcomes kama raga (giving preference to sense pleasures) and attains a jhana, one can clearly see the superiority of jhanic pleasures over sense pleasures.
– This is why ancient yogis were willing to go deep into the jungles to be away from sense attractions.However, when one comprehends Buddha Dhamma (Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana) one will be able to live a normal life and gradually cultivate the path. One may not get to Ariya jhana until the Anagami stage, but one would be free from the apayas if one gets to the Sotapanna Anugami stage.
– Many people get discouraged because they cannot cultivate either type of jhana. But cultivating jhana is like learning to ride a bike. It is easier for those who had cultivated anariya jhana in recent past lives.Just forget about jhanas and follow the Path. Learn about Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana and contemplate on them. The goal is to be free of samsaric suffering, not seeking jhanic pleasures.
– All living beings (including those in animal or niraya realms) had cultivated jhana and had been born in the highest Brahma realms many times in this beginningless samsara. -
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