January 1, 2023 at 6:45 am #41921
You said that rupakkhanda is memory. (sense impression).. this has shaken my understanding of saññākhandha.
if rupa is memory then what is saññā?.. and I also wonder how buddha can recall his past name?
there are so many languages right now in world. and many Affrican language are absurd sound.
in my previous birth , I might be speaking an unknown language. lets say hindi. and I see tree and learn it as ‘व्रीक्ष’।. and in this birth I dont know hindi. will I still retrive that experience and call it ‘tree’ or ‘व्रीक्ष’.
You say gandhabba speak to each other in language of saññā.. so how an english speaking gandhabba speak to hindi speaking gandhabba.. and in that context what is difference between rupa and sanna?
is saññā nothing but saddarupa associated with that rupa?
Can you please clarify this doubt tome .
Thanks in advance
January 1, 2023 at 9:16 am #41922LayDhammaFollowerParticipant
if rupa is memory then what is saññā?
This is not true. Please read, Difference between physical rupa and rupakkhandha.
What is saññā? Read, What is Sanna?
Saññā is the recognition of something based on our memory.
In contrast, Vedana (vipaka vedana), means becoming aware of something.
And I also wonder how buddha can recall his past name?
This is possible through abhinna powers. with which one can recall past memory records stored in nama gotta.
All rupa we have ever encountered extending to infinite past time is there in nama gotta.
For Details of gandhabba concepts, study, Living Dhamma – mental body gandhabba – section
If you have not, please read the section Key Dhamma Concept – five-aggregates-pancakkhandha Section First.
After studying above section more details are in Key Dhamma Concepts – nama&rupa to namarupa section
January 1, 2023 at 9:32 am #41923
Think about what happens when you see an object. How do you recognize it?
Suppose someone gives you an orange. You look at it and instantly recognize what it is and how an orange tastes. That recognition is saññā.
Now, for that identification to happen, you must have seen and eaten oranges before.
Your past “seeing events of an orange is in your memory; it is in your “pile of past rupa” or rupakkhandha. Furthermore, you remember the taste of orange from your past experiences, i.e., the “taste of an orange” is in your saññākhandha.
Let us get that issue resolved first. Please read the following post and point out anything you don’t understand:
If you understand, read the first six posts in that section and ask questions. Please quote the post and bullet # in question:
January 1, 2023 at 11:23 pm #41932
Yes I am reading all the pages under section five-aggregates-pancakkhandha
For simplicity replace orange with table. because I am not tasting the table then. lets take three incident.
(first time) I show it (I dont know thats its called table)…
it went into namagota./pancakhanda. with Rupa=image1 and sanna=??
(second time) I show and some one said its called ‘t-a-b-l-e’.
it went into namagota./pancakhanda. with Rupa=image2 and sanna=sadda.rupa-‘t-a-b-l-e’
(Third time) I show ‘t-a-b-l-e’.
the mind scans old rupas, and find the image1 and image 2 are matching and the sanna is sadda.rupa -‘t-a-b-l-e’
it went into namagota./pancakhanda. with Rupa=image3 and sanna=saddarupa’ n-i-c-e- -t-a-b-l-e’
so in short what I want to tell is sanna is nothing but another Rupa, particularly from different sense organ. and mostly from sound.
January 2, 2023 at 5:43 am #41933LayDhammaFollowerParticipant
Saññā is not sadda Rūpa.
#1 All Rūpa (not RūpakKhanda) are made of five dhatus.
#2 Rūpa varies from very subtle levels to very dense level. World is made of Rūpa. Mind cannot exist without at least even small trace of matter.
#3 While PañcakKhanda are completely mental.
PañcakKhanda = nāma gotta + kamma bhava. (Kamma bhava = contains energised dhammā or kamma bija accumulated by that Lifestream.)
#4 While, Saññā is part of viññāṇa dhatu.
#5 When internal and external Rūpa, i.e. senses and sense objects makes contact, PañcakKhanda arises.
To understand what is happening at cittā/cetasika level during sensory event, I think you will need to delve into Abhidhamma details.
#6 Saññā is not completely related to words.
If you noticed, the post on saññā says “saññā = embedded meaning“.
For example, different people with different languages use different words for apple, but, when all of them are shown apple, they recognise it in same way.
#7 More data we have about something, more we can recognise and have precise and accurate saññā about it.
If we taste apple in addition to seeing it and also smell it as well, we would have even more precise “saññā” about “apple”. Next time we see apple, we will “recognise” what apple is and what apple is like
#8 That is why Buddha said to cultivate Aniccā saññā.
Aniccā applies to all six dhatu, 31 realms, twelve āyatana, 28 Rūpa, PañcakKhanda, 11 steps of Paṭicca Samuppāda.
Everything is of nature of Aniccā/Dukkhā/Anattā.
question for Lal =
I think intuition is related to saññā, in some way, is that correct?
January 2, 2023 at 8:59 am #41941
You should first understand what saññā is. Please read the post:
Also, read the first two posts in the section, because that helps solidify the concept of saññā with examples:
Question by LDF: “I think intuition is related to saññā, in some way, is that correct?”
Intuition on a given object is based on first recognizing (saññā) the object and any other relevant objects.
- For example, your intuition of not to touch a red-hot metal comes because you recognize that metal is heated and can burn.
January 2, 2023 at 10:16 am #41942
I have read lots of post on this site. And all post you guys are refering are read many time. And still not getting. Any way i rest my case here.i conclude that its beyond my capacity to understand.
I will read and try to ask question from your posts then.
You said brain transmits sanna to gandhabba. So is it that brain has direct access to panchakhanda. And from there it retrives sanna. Why gandhabba can not do that.
Is it that gandhabba has no access to psnca khadha.
Is it that brain records momment by momment data to rupakhanda also.?
January 2, 2023 at 10:23 am #41943
“I will read and try to ask question from your posts then.”
OK. That is fine. There is no point in discussing gandhabba if you cannot understand saññā, the difference between rupa and rupakkhandha, etc.
January 2, 2023 at 10:31 am #41944
If sanna is personal then how can two gandhabba understsnd each others personal sanna. Thats what my confusion whenbi ask how buddha could retrive past sanna particcularly name and clan. It can be am nknown language in past life.
Is it like panca khanda is not part of gandhabba. But out there somewhere in vinnana dhatu/ akashic record. And only Brain can access it to read/write?
Can gandhbba in para loka have access to pancakhanda and can read/write in it.
After the death of an arhant. What happens to pancakhanda. Can some other living arant ve able to read that with abhinna?
January 2, 2023 at 10:34 am #41945
Ok thanks. Need not to answer my question.
January 2, 2023 at 10:42 am #41946
As I said, I cannot explain these things without you having a basic understanding. It is just a waste of time for both of us.
This is a common problem. People want to get into complex things like “where are memories stored?”, “how do gandhabbas communicate?” etc., without understanding saññā, the difference between rupa and rupakkhandha, etc.
- Spend the time and understand the basics. That will be a good investment.
- I will be happy to discuss any issues with the posts that I have suggested.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.