Question on the Culasaccaka Sutta

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    • #34155
      Lal
      Keymaster

      The following post is by Raja_mw. It seems that occasionally some people are still unable to post (they get an error message). You can send me an email at [email protected] and I can post it.

      Hi,
      Homage to Triple Gem

      I’m confused about the last part of Culasaccaka Sutta (MN 35).
      …..
      Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “yamidaṁ, bho gotama, dāne puññañca puññamahī ca taṁ dāyakānaṁ sukhāya hotū”ti.

      “Yaṁ kho, aggivessana, tādisaṁ dakkhiṇeyyaṁ āgamma avītarāgaṁ avītadosaṁ avītamohaṁ, taṁ dāyakānaṁ bhavissati. Yaṁ kho, aggivessana, mādisaṁ dakkhiṇeyyaṁ āgamma vītarāgaṁ vītadosaṁ vītamohaṁ, taṁ tuyhaṁ bhavissatī”ti

      it seems like there is a difference in the result of giving to Anariya and Ariya, but I don’t understand. please clarified this passage. isn’t in both instances, merit goes to the donor?
      what is emphasized?
      much appreciate…

    • #34156
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Cūḷasaccaka Sutta (MN 35)

      Here is an English translation of the sutta:

      Cula-Saccaka Sutta: The Shorter Discourse to Saccaka

      The verses that Raja refers to are at the end of the sutta.
      – The first part of the sutta describes a conversation of the Buddha with Saccaka.
      – Saccaka was a “guru” and had a large following. People brought offerings to him.

      Once Scakkaka comprehended Buddha Dhamma, he invited the Buddha and the bhikkhus to a meal the next day.
      – Then he asked his followers to prepare the meal.
      – Once they brought the food to him, Saccaka offered that food to the Buddha and the accompanying bhikkhus.

      At the end of the meal, Saccaka said, “Master Gotama, may the merits of this offering be exclusively for the happiness of the donors (his followers).”
      – But the Buddha explained that the meal to him was offered by Saccaka and NOT by his followers, and thus the merits will go only to Saccaka.

      Note that it was not the desire of the Buddha, but how nature works.
      One accrues his own kamma based on his intention. In the Nib­bedhi­ka Sutta (AN 6.63): “Cetanāhaṃ (cetanā aham), bhikkhave, kammaṃ vadāmi.”
      – The intention of the followers of Saccaka was to make the offering to Saccaka. They prepared the meal on the request of Saccaka, and NOT because they wanted to make the offering to the Buddha.
      – But it was Saccaka who had the desire and intention to make the offering to the Buddha. Thus he gets the merits for his kamma (done with the intention).

      P.S. It is NOT the physical action that matters. What matters is the kammic energy generated in one’s thoughts (citta).

      • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Lal.
    • #34161
      Aniduan
      Participant

      Lal wrote: “The intention of the followers of Saccaka was to make the offering to Saccaka. They prepared the meal on the request of Saccaka, and NOT because they wanted to make the offering to the Buddha”.

      If the followers instead made the food with the intention of offering it to the Buddha, not handing the food to the Buddha but keeping in mind when the food is being prepared that it will be offered to the Buddha by their guru Saccaka. In this case will they earn merits?

      Thanks in advance, this is an important concept I would like to understand.

    • #34163
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Aniduan asked: “If the followers instead made the food with the intention of offering it to the Buddha, not handing the food to the Buddha but keeping in mind when the food is being prepared that it will be offered to the Buddha by their guru Saccaka. In this case will they earn merits?”

      Yes. I have highlighted the key part.
      – If they had the intention, that is what counts.
      – Even if they did not offer that food to the Buddha, they MADE AN EFFORT in preparing the food with the INTENTION that food will be offered to the Buddha.

      The easiest way to remember is the following: Kammic energy is created in citta (one’s thoughts), specifically in javana citta.
      – Javana cittas arise with intention. Here if the intention includes good mental factors (non-greed, compassion, etc) then those give rise to good kamma. If the intention includes bad mental factors (greed, anger, etc) then those give rise to bad kamma.
      – Those are also vaci sankhara and kaya sankhara: “Saṅkhāra – What It Really Means” Good sankhara (punnabhi sankhara create good kamma. Bad sankhara (apunnabhi sankhara create bad kamma.

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