[Tobias G]

Kamma are Done with Sankhāra – Types of Sankhāra

Please see #11:
“A question may arise how puññā­bhi­saṅ­khāra (or meritorious thoughts) arise with avijja.

– A simple answer is that until one FULLY comprehends anicca, dukkha, anatta (i.e., that anywhere in this world of 31 realms is not devoid of suffering), one does even meritorious deeds with expectation of “good outcomes/ good rebirths” in this world.
– Therefore, until one FULLY comprehends anicca, dukkha, anatta, one WILL have avijjā even when engaged in “meritorious deeds”.”

Moha is a cetasika. Thus when doing apunnabhisankhara moha will be involved. But when doing punnabhisankhara moha should not be there in the citta. Avijja is the reduced form of moha (but not explicit a cetasika). How can one do punna kamma with avijja?

[Lal]

Sorry that I did not see this question. This question is very similar to the one you raised under the other topic today.

However, I can answer in a different way here. Both explanations are inter-consistent.

I mentioned this in the recent post, “Kamma, Saṅkhāra, and Abhisaṅkhāra“, see #12, which says:

12. Even though the first step in Paticca Samuppāda is simply, “avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā,” it really refers to abhisaṅkhārā.

Paṭic­ca­samup­pāda ­Vibhaṅga, explains the term “avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā” in akusala-mula Paticca Samuppāda (that leads to suffering) as follows: “Tattha katame avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā? Puññā­bhi­saṅ­khāro, apuññā­bhi­saṅ­khāro, āneñjā­bhi­saṅ­khāro, kāyasaṅkhāro, vacīsaṅkhāro, cittasaṅkhāro“.

Translated: “What is avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā? Puññā­bhi­saṅ­khāra, apuññā­bhi­saṅ­khāra, āneñjā­bhi­saṅ­khāra, kāyasaṅkhāra, vacīsaṅkhāra, cittasaṅkhāra“. (here, citta saṅkhāra is the same as manō saṅkhāra).

Those are all abhisaṅkhāra, even though the verse is simplified as “avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā“.
Two categories of saṅkhāra are mentioned there. One category refers to types of kamma accrued (Puññā­bhi­saṅ­khāra, apuññā­bhi­saṅ­khāra, āneñjā­bhi­saṅ­khāra.)

So, the point is that Puññā­bhi­saṅ­khāra or puñña kamma are also done with avijjā!
– That is the avijjā anusaya left in ANYONE below the Arahant stage.

An Arahant will do only puñña kiriya (i.e., moral deeeds without any abhisankhara)

Let me know if that is not clear.

[Tobias G]

That is clear, but not in terms of Abhidhamma and cetasika. Punnabhisankhara should not contain asobhana cetasika.

[Lal]

Which asobhana cetasika is in a punnabhisankhara?

[Tobias G]

Non, that is the problem. How can a punna kamma be done with avijja which is lower level moha (that is a cetasika)?

[Lal]

Avijja (a + vijja) is without the “knowledge of the truth (vijja).

It is not realizing that NOTHING in this world is worthy of praise, and attachment to things in this world WILL lead to suffering.
– This vision (Samma Ditthi) is first glimpsed at the Sotapanna Anugami stage.
– The vision (Samma Ditthi) and the perception (sanna) that goes with it are fully completed only at the Arahant stage,

Another way to look at this is the following>
– Moha is at one end, where one’s mind is totally covered. It is an asobhana cetasika.
– Panna (wisdom) is at the other end and is OPTIMIZED for an Arahant. Panna is a sobhana cetasika.
– Avijja is in the middle.

Anyone who is not at least a Sotapanna Anugami COULD act with moha (and do an apayagami action) if an arammana is enticing enough.
– A Sotapanna Anugami or above will NEVER act with moha. But they may act with avijja to varying degrees.
– Only an Arahant will never even act with avijja, let alone moha.

P.S. The forum issues are still there to varying degrees.
– The software for the forum was updated about a couple of weeks ago and that was when these problems started. They are still working to fix those issues.
– See, “Testing Forum Submissions”

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