September 16, 2022 at 10:52 pm #40406
We know that the pada nirukti of samma, san + ma = “get rid of” + “san.”
Miccha seems to consist of two parts as well. … + iccha. Any idea about the padi nirukti? I haven’t come across it so far.
“Right” and “wrong” are shallow translations and can only be understood in the proper context. They have little meaning on their own. “Wrong” ditthi keep one in samsara. And that’s because we have iccha for worldly matters and do whatever it takes to fulfill those iccha. So what comes before the “iccha—”represented by the letter “m”— must express that sentiment.
I feel it helps to explain things to other people knowing the meanings of such words. It makes the picture clearer and it removes any sense of dogmatism words such as “right” and “wrong” could evoke. In my culture, this is especially so.
September 17, 2022 at 6:03 am #40409
Yes. It could be the following.
“Icchā” is “liking” or “craving.”
– We like things based on our view/perception of a “me” and “mine.”
– There is a key verse: “Etam mama, eso’ham asmi, eso mē attāti,” which means, “That is mIne, it is me, or my attā (my essence).”
– Thus “ma” root represents “me” and “mine.”
– It is possible that “micchā” comes from the combination of those two words: mama/me + icchā.
Attachment to worldly things reduces drastically with the dispelling of sakkāya diṭṭhi at the Sotapanna stage by “seeing” that there is no “permanent soul” or essence of “me.” Our existence arises based only on causes/effects, i.e., Paticca Samuppada. There is no “me” traversing the Samsara or the rebirth process. That is the deeper level of micchā diṭṭhi.
– The wrong perception (“micchā saññā” or “saññā vipallāsa“) goes away completely only at the Arahant stage.
September 20, 2022 at 9:03 am #40490
Thanks Lal for your input. I haven’t been able to find any other explanation so I guess this might be a potential fit.
The fact that there’s the perception of “me” and “mine” leads to iccha, and iccha in turn strengthens this perception. It’s like a vicious circle preventing one from seeing the truth.
Edit: right after finishing this post, I came across “Mudā” which is translated as “gladness,” “pleasure,” and “joy.”
I don’t know the basis of the combining of words, but iccha is believed to bring joy and pleasure, so it makes sense from that angle at least.
“Mutti” is a bit stronger as it is connected to the ultimate release, but if the nicca perception is strong that might even be the “view” one has. I may be stretching this last one, though:)
September 20, 2022 at 9:55 am #40494
September 20, 2022 at 10:43 pm #40501
It’s without the “h” as in “Manussā mudā modamānā ure putte naccentā apārutagharā maññe viharissantī’ti.” Kūṭadantasutta
Some additional info:
The Pali Text Society’s Pali-English Dictionary says the following:
Mudā, (f.) (fr. mud, see modati) joy, pleasure D. II, 214 (v. l. pamudā)
BuddhaSasana: Concise Pali-English Dictionary & Sutta Central translate it as:
September 21, 2022 at 5:03 am #40504
I cannot think of a reason why either mudā or mudhā has anything to do with micchā. Where can the connection be?
September 21, 2022 at 8:55 am #40505
My logic was as follows:
When one has the view that iccha is a source of joy and happiness (muda), one has the wrong view.
One perceives it’s worth fulfilling iccha, because that leads to “muda,” not to suffering. Hence a wrong view.
September 21, 2022 at 2:10 pm #40508cubibobiParticipant
There is also “musā“, as in musāvāda, that is also a candidate, ie. iccha for the wrong thing, or in the wrong way.
September 21, 2022 at 3:24 pm #40514
1. “Pada nirutti” in Pali is based based on phonetics, not based on grammar rules.
It helps understand the meaning of words formed by combining two words/fragments that contribute to the meaning.
P.S. The sound of the combined word comes from the fragments, but sometimes the pronunciation of the combined word is a bit changed for easier pronunciation. For example, the two words “na” (not) and “āgāmi” (not coming back) combine to yield “Anāgāmi” (not coming back to kāma loka) But many words are straight forward: sammā, tanhā, etc. See #2 and #3.
2. I have given many examples based on “san” in “What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Saṃsāra)”
3. More examples in “Search Results for: pada nirutti“
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