How to destroy Kama Raga and cultivate Ariya jhanas to attain the Anagami?

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    • #18045
      Tien
      Participant

      Hi everyone,

      I’m 22 years old, my goal is to become at least an Anagami in this life, ASAP, because I don’t want to waste my precious human bhava, I don’t want to stay for any longer in the extremely dangerous sansara, and I don’t know whether I’ll die tomorrow or not.

      I’ve read and contemplated on the PureDhamma ebook for few months, and I think I grasped tilakkhana, paticca-samupadda, 31 planes… I try to doing metta bhavana everyday but I don’t know if I do it correctly or not (I wish everyone will be peaceful, healthy and have a chance to understand pure Dhamma). I really want to attain Ariya jhanas to become a fully Anagami, but I don’t even know how to start tradition bhavana.

      But the thing is, I’m still kind of addicted to sexual pleasure (through watching porn and masturbating – I don’t know if this is lobha or just kama raga), there always has a subtle though about looking at beautiful girls on the street that sometime I can’t resist. I still like delicious food, music, sci-fi movies and gaming too. Although I feel like I can give up everything easily, but every now and then the kama raga coming back to haunt me. Although I’m trying to Anapanasati as much as I can but sometimes the kama raga just slip by, unnoticed.

      Can someone show me a way to destroy/overcome kama raga and cultivate Ariya jhanna to the 4th at most and become an Anagami. Because I don’t want to waste huge chunk of time in Asanna realms.

      Thank everyone for reading my lengthy post.

    • #18063
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Welcome to the forum, Tien!

      I am impressed that a young person like you have this Noble goal.
      Sadhu! Sadhu!! Sadhu!!!

      You seem to be doing the right things. Read the Meditation and Living Dhamma sections too.

      Getting to the Anagami stage is not a trivial thing, but of course should be achievable by a determined person with tihetuka birth. Of course, there is no way to figure out whether one has a tihetuka birth or not.

      Here is a post that could give you more information:
      Craving for Pornography – How to Reduce the Tendency

      As discussed there, an Anagami would not have craving for ANY type of sense pleasure: craving for tasty food, smells or body touches (including sex).

      However, that cannot be achieved by sheer will power. It comes through comprehension of the fruitlessness of sense pleasures. Jut as with any stage of magga phala, that understanding comes through the comprehension of Tilakkhana at increasingly higher levels.

    • #22504
      firewns
      Participant

      Hi Tien,

      Perhaps you may want to look at the : Udana Sutta: Exclamation (SN 22.55).

      In the earlier part of the sutta, The Buddha shows how one can overcome the five lower fetters (samyojanas). By overcoming these five lower fetters, one effectively becomes an Anagami. How does one overcome these five fetters? By discerning the three characteristics of anicca, dukkha and anatta for the five khandhas. To reach that stage though, one must be knowledgeable and well practised in the Dhamma, and maybe even respectful of Ariyas.

      But The Buddha does not stop there. He goes on to explain how to become an Arahant in the later part of the sutta. It is through the ending of passion (possibly tanha) for the five khandhas that one attains Nibbana.

      Hope this helps to point you in a possible right direction!

    • #22507
      Yeos
      Participant

      Hi @Tien

      If you read the Sutta you’ll notice that the problem lies in the ground for the landing of consciousness.

    • #22508
      Yeos
      Participant


      @Tien

      …more concretely:
      Practice contemplation:
      1. On all kind of decomposed women corpses by visualizing or with pics.
      2. On the foul aspects of your own body (i.e. the 32 parts).
      3. On the drawbacks of indulging in the gross pleasures that you mentioned:
      – Considerable loss of energy, feeling of shame /demotivation…any drawback you can find !
      4. Moreover 1.2.3. will help you improving your understanding of Tilakhanna.
      5. If and when you feel strong enough – test yourself: watch briefly some porno, then consciously switch off the screen and don’t masturbate – it’s about putting together understanding and willpower towards the same end!

    • #22509
      Tien
      Participant

      Thanks @firewns and @Yeos for the useful advises. I think I haven’t do Asubha bhavana seriously enough, so I will try harder in this respect.

      It’s been 7 months since, and I made quite a drastic progress in the Path, but to be honest the Kama is still there, but the situation is a bit weird:
      In the day and the evening, I live totally aware of my body, feelings and thoughts (I’m try to practice Satipatthana 24/7), Kamavitakka (or Byapadavitakka or Vihimsavitakka) would be destroyed as soon as they arise. I keep Sabbaasava Sutta in my heart for protection purpose.
      But sometimes (maybe every 7 days) at night, when I laying down, Kama power seems to have multiply by 1000 and my Sati power decrease 1000 times. Maybe Mara the Evil One works harder at night I suppose. I try to not eat the trap but my power at that time was so weak, I couldn’t remember the protection Suttas that I’ve remembered by heart. So sometimes Mara still win over me, leaves behind much remorse and shame for me.

      Maybe this because I haven’t got into the Jhanas yet. My situation is exactly like what described in this sutta MN25. In this sutta the Buddha said if one frequently abide in the Jhanas, one will blind the Mara, make him unable to control at will.

    • #22510
      y not
      Participant

      Tien,

      You say: “…when I laying down, Kama power seems to have multiply by 1000 and my Sati power decrease 1000 times”.

      Recollect the devas. They are watching. Your unwholesome activities, whatever they be, even your unwholesome thoughts they can watch. Not as wardens – to observe, admonish and punish, but to ‘watch over’ rather, like tutors their pupils.

      SN 55.34:
      “…. these four footprints of the gods are in order to purify unpurified beings and cleanse unclean beings.
      (experiential confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha plus ethical conduct loved by the Noble Ones).”

      And these devas ARE such Noble Ones.

      SN 55.35/6 are on the same theme. SN 55.36 has:

      “…when someone has four things the gods are pleased and speak of what they have in common”…
      “There are deities with experiential confidence in the Buddha who passed away from here and were reborn there. They think: ‘Having such experiential confidence in the Buddha, we passed away from there and were reborn here.’ That noble disciple has the same kind of experiential confidence in the Buddha, so they will come into the presence of the gods.
      “They think:‘Having such ethical conduct loved by the noble ones, we passed away from there and were reborn here. That noble disciple has the same kind of ethical conduct loved by the noble ones, so they will come into the presence of the gods.’ When someone has four things the gods are pleased and speak of what they have in common.”

      That makes for encouragement alright. And remember, these devas are Ariyas, so ‘to go into their presence’ is only a station (for Sakadagamis) or 6 more at most(for Satopannas) short of Nibbana. It is not for the purpose of enjoying a deva bhava in itself and for itself.

      much Metta

    • #22511
      Christian
      Participant

      I attained Anagami Anugami now and I can see that in couple months or years I will be on Anagami stage, if somebody want support ask here or join our discord for direct support https://discord.gg/g6UWq4b

    • #22512
      Christian
      Participant

      “Recollect the devas. They are watching. Your unwholesome activities, whatever they be, even your unwholesome thoughts they can watch. Not as wardens – to observe, admonish and punish, but to ‘watch over’ rather, like tutors their pupils”

      Don’t do that. If you think like that you will actually cultivate more avijja. Only wisdom can permanently cut off tanha/avijja. Simple reasoning will not work you will actually get opposite. Those devas didn’t attain Ariya status by doing the same but by cultivating wisdom and insight.

      I do not know why my post didn’t show up so if it will be double please delete the shorted one.

      I attained almost Anagami fully (anagami anugami) and starting getting into Ariya jhana (first one) if anybody want guidence or any help with anything ask here or join our discord https://discord.gg/g6UWq4b

    • #22515
      y not
      Participant

      Christian,

      Thank you.

      Yes, the posts are taking time to show up on the Forum.

      I do not see what ‘reasoning’ you are talking about.(‘Simple reasoning will not work you will actually get opposite’).There is no reasoning involved. Those devas had attained aveccappasada and developed Sila . Likewise those humans who are doing the same. Hence the connection.

      The Buddha Himself recommended: ‘You should recollect the devas’. My sole concern was to offer Tien encouragement from my own experience. I too had for long been victim to the shortcomings or failings that he mentions, and this proved to be the way out. It is just a device. Maybe it works for him as well. Again,so: “…. these four footprints of the gods are in order TO PURIFY UNPURIFIED BEINGS AND CLEANSE UNCLEAN BEINGS.”

      I hope you get my meaning now.

      May you attain Anagami phalla soon, Christain.

      Metta

    • #22516
      Christian
      Participant

      Recollection of Devas is something different than thinking that someone is watching over your deeds – it just coping mechanism and type of psychiatry rather than a way to attain any Nibbana, it’s still in the field of wrong views.

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