This is a deeper issue, as I pointed out in my earlier on May 14, 2024 at 8:33 pm (post # 49756). The following is what I stated there:
1. Here is another translation with the Pali: “Oghataraṇa Sutta (SN 1.1).”
- This short sutta has deep meanings regarding how a puthujjana is kept away from Nibbana. In many suttas, attaining Nibbana is compared to crossing an ocean/river/flood and going from this shore (this world) to the further shore (Nibbana.)
- A puthujjana attaches to a sensory input in two stages, explained as upaya/upadana or, equivalently, “purana kamma“/”nava kamma” stages. For example, a puthujjana in the human realm first “lands (patiṭṭha) on kama bhava” and then “grasps that arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage.”
- One who lands in the stream (flood) sinks to the bottom; if he grasps a floating object, he will be swept away by the stream (flood).
- The Deva asked, “How did you cross the flood”? and the Buddha answered, “By neither landing nor grasping to something (that was floating), I crossed the flood.”
- The two stages are discussed in the posts “Upaya and Upādāna – Two Stages of Attachment” and “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation“
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You are referring to the main point of “For example, a puthujjana in the human realm first “lands (patiṭṭha) on kama bhava” and then “grasps that arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage.”
- This needs to be done in two stages: First, one stops grasping arammana (āyūhaṁ) at the upadana stage. In particular, one stops doing immoral deeds. That happens at the Sotapanna stage. Then, one starts working on the second step, trying to comprehend the deeper aspects of the Four Noble Truths/Tilakkhana/Paticca Samuppada.
- That second step is to avoid “landing (patiṭṭha) in kama bhava” and attain the Anagami stage.
When one is free of the rebirths in the kama loka, then that process needs to be repeated to get released from the rupa loka and arupa loka. P.S. That can happen after the Anagami stage.
- Therefore, first focus on attaining the Sotapanna stage by getting rid of sakkaya ditthi, i.e., realizing the unfruitfulness/dangers of attaching to things in this world.
- As I mentioned many times, understanding “distorted sanna” helps in all those steps, but that approach may be too difficult for those who do not have enough background. For example, one could start with the “Paṭicca Samuppāda” section. You can review the subsections and pick which subsections/posts are suitable.
- The key to making progress is to start at a point where one understands most of a post but gets stuck in some issues. At that point, one should quote that post and ask questions to get those issues resolved. It is pointless to start at an advanced post or section.
I don’t think most people have spent enough time seriously contemplating the series of posts I mentioned in my reply to Tobias in my later comment.
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The following is that exchange:
Tobias: “What means “landing” in relation to kama dhatu, kama sanna, kama sankappa…? I guess it is the purana kamma stage.”
- That is correct.
Tobias: “But how can the Bodhisatta avoid kama dhatu (with kama sanna)? “
- He could not/did not avoid it. As we discussed, even the Buddha or an Arahant also experiences the kama sanna (e.g., sweetness of sugar). Anyone born with a human body would automatically get the kama sanna because it comes with the “uppatti bhavanga.”
- So, they all go through the kama dhatu and kama sanna stages, but NOT to the kama sankappa stage.
- The Buddha or an Arahant would still be in the kama dhatu but NOT in kama bhava. The Bodhisatta was in kama bhava, but he overcame it during the Enlightenment.
- That is explained in “Recovering the Suffering-Free Pure Mind“. After that, we discussed purana kamma and nava kamma. See the sequence of posts in “Is There a “Self”?” Then we moved to the “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā).” section.
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