Reply To: Post on “Salāyatana Are Not Sense Faculties”


Dosakkhayo wrote: “But that does not answer that “cakkayatana is cakkhu pasada rupa made of apo, tejo, vayo, pathavi“.”

You also quoted: 


Tattha katamaṁ rūpāyatanaṁ? Yaṁ rūpaṁ catunnaṁ mahābhūtānaṁ upādāya vaṇṇanibhā sanidassanaṁ sappaṭighaṁ nīlaṁ pītakaṁ lohitakaṁ odātaṁ kāḷakaṁ mañjiṭṭhakaṁ hari harivaṇṇaṁ ambaṅkuravaṇṇaṁ dīghaṁ rassaṁ aṇuṁ thūlaṁ vaṭṭaṁ parimaṇḍalaṁ caturassaṁ chaḷaṁsaṁ aṭṭhaṁsaṁ soḷasaṁsaṁ ninnaṁ thalaṁ chāyā ātapo āloko andhakāro abbhā mahikā dhūmo rajo candamaṇḍalassa vaṇṇanibhā sūriyamaṇḍalassa vaṇṇanibhā tārakarūpānaṁ vaṇṇanibhā ādāsamaṇḍalassa vaṇṇanibhā maṇisaṅkhamuttaveḷuriyassa vaṇṇanibhā jātarūparajatassa vaṇṇanibhā, yaṁ vā panaññampi atthi rūpaṁ catunnaṁ mahābhūtānaṁ upādāya vaṇṇanibhā sanidassanaṁ sappaṭighaṁ, yaṁ rūpaṁ sanidassanaṁ sappaṭighaṁ cakkhunā anidassanena sappaṭighena passi vā passati vā passissati vā passe vā, rūpampetaṁ rūpāyatanampetaṁ rūpadhātupesā.

Just like I pointed out earlier regarding ayatana,  “..rupa ever experienced, to be experienced, or now being experienced” is included in rūpāyatana.

Please read the new post “Salāyatana Are Not Sense Faculties ” carefully. 

  • There are over 250 suttas in the “Saḷāyatana Vagga” in Saṁyutta Nikāya (starting with SN 35.1.)
  • I have selected a few suttas to point out the main points. 
  • As pointed out in #5, the Sabba sutta (SN 35. 23) clearly states that the 12 āyatana encompasses the “all in this world.”
  • Yes. Rupā are made of the four great elements. But as soon as we see, hear, etc., they become “atita rupa” and are included in the rupakkhandha (as nāmagotta.)

LDM wrote: “Perhaps Internal āyatana in RūpakKhanda refers to mental impression of those āyatana, Rather than physical āyatana themselves.”

  • Not perhaps. They are.

LDM asked:I am not sure if there is difference between āyatana and Saḷāyatana, Is there?”

  • No difference.

Jorg wrote: 

A) #3 “Defilements at an intense level are lobha, dosa, and moha. Those reduce to rāga, paṭigha, and avijjā with the dispelling of the ten types of micchā diṭṭhi.”

Shouldn’t it be that the reduction to raga, patigha, and avijja occurs when one starts comprehending tilakkhana, i.e., enter the lokotarra noble eighfold path/become sotapanna (anugami)? So only after removing the deeper miccha ditthi which can happen only after one first removes the ten types of miccha ditthi

  • Yes. That is correct. What I meant to say was one cannot become a Sotapanna Anugami until the removes the ten types of miccha ditthi.

“B) At the bottom of the page I noticed this (see bolded parts): “Those two realizations involve two types of attaSakkāya diṭṭhi involves “attā” (with a long “a”), and anatta in Tilakkhana involves atta (with a long “a.”)”

  • Yes. One must understand that to see that anatta is not about a “self” or “me.” Anatta is a characteristic of everything in this world. The Buddha described “everything in this world (sabba)”  in different ways: five aggregates, 12 āyatana, six dhātus.  They all have the “anatta nature.”
  • It is sakkāya diṭṭhi  that involves a “self” or “me.” 
  • That is what I tried to point out in #13, and #14 in the new post. 

Again, there is a lot of information packed in that new post. Take the time to read the links too. These concepts have been hidden since the rise of the Mahayana, which led to the contamination of Theravada too. Philosophers like Nagarjuna and Buddhaghosa played critical roles in that. Many Theravadins still use Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga instead of the Tipitaka! Furthermore, they are now translating the Tipitaka according to the Visuddhimagga and other Mahayana concepts.