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Sincere thanks to all the participants for the detailed explanation and the all the links.
Studying the links will keep me busy for the next several months (unfortunately my brain tends to get overloaded with the subject and I end up taking breaks and readings issues on
current politics and get completely distracted and sidetracked)
Sir, it is very intriguing to hear that the rupakkhanda includes all the past rupa that one
has ever experienced and it includes all the past, present and future rupakkhandas.
Comparing the river analogy, the clean waters of the Yamuna becomes toxic and non potable
when it reaches Delhi (which is a fairly short distance – 233 miles
), it is inconceivable that the
rupakkhanda has all the rupa that it has ever experienced (considering the countless lives
one has taken in samsara) and very scary that there is every possibility of one being very
pure at one stage and being completely polluted at some stage.
All one can do is try and hope to achieve the first path and fruit.Thank you!
We are nama and rupa plus the other four. So the gandhabba without a body does not have rupa (a form) and waits to get the next rupa.
Sorry, I am making a slow and gradual transition from vedic teachings to the Buddha’s teachings!
The concept is similar, except the soul according to them is unchangeable, whereas the Buddha says it is constantly undergoing change.
Thank you for your patience!Sir, thank you for the clarification and the links.
We and all the creatures are made up of the five khandas, how many khandas does a gandhabba have while it does not have a physical body?
We have gross body, sensation, perception, the volition to react and consciousness, does a gandhabba
have any of these?Does cravings and attachments inhibit the change and progress of a gandhabba?
When one is on a spiritual path, their personality entirely changes as they progress, and there are some who don’t change much during their entire life. Is it the gandhabba which is changing and causing the external changes in one’s personality?
There are stories where people are born in the same family, changing roles and causing
problems to those who had harmed them in their previous lives.
When I mentioned parents karmas, it is believed that generally good children are born to pious parents and vice versa.Thank you Sir,
Does the gandhabba undergo constant change from the time of conception till the death of the body
or does the change happen only at the time of death?
You mentioned karmic energy, is the energy cumulatively formed for the next body, to take it to the
next destination (animal, human, deva and other forms) ?Thank you to Lalji, DanielSt, Aniduan and Cubibobi,
Looks like I am almost there. The seed and tree analogy helped further. I have a son, and I can see that his parents, grandparents, and all our combined karmas contributed to his cause of existence. His grand parents are gone, I will be gone soon and he will be there, and I can clearly see that we are not the same, and hopefully after listening to the Bhante it will be absolutely clear.
Best wishes to all,
RajThank you, Lalji, for your explanation and I sincerely appreciate your help.
I have another question regarding this topic.
The Buddha had encountered Dipankara Buddha thousands of eons ago. After that as a Boddhisatta, he took many forms (including many animal forms, as per Jataka tales), and on the night of his enlightenment he could see all these forms.
So there was a continuity, it was the same individual, from the time he saw Dipankara Buddha, till the time he got enlightened under the Bodhi tree.
What was it which remained same throughout that period?
Is it the same Gandhabba undergoing slight modifications but still the same.
In the vedic school, there is something called (achintya bedhaabedha) simultaneously one and different, in other words, an inconceivable phenomenon.According to vedic scholars, the soul is 1/10000th the size of the tip of one’s hair.
It cannot be cut, burnt or destroyed.
Birth and death is compared to ones changing one’s outfit. One keeps on changing ones dress till one can get free from samsara, countless journey between upper, lower and middle planetary systems in the universe. Human birth is ideal for liberation (very similar to the Buddha’s teachings)
When one dies the soul leaves the body through one of the nine orifices of the body, but in the case of a successful yogi it leaves from the top of the head and attains liberation.The statement below is what I am familiar with but that is not my belief. I used to believe or
accepted it because that I what I was told by the popular spiritual teachers. But now I am skeptical and want to understand the Buddha’s viewpoint. In the past, I was cautioned that the Buddha should be respected but not to accept his teachings, he was supposedly an incarnation of
God who preached against vedic teachings to confuse people. Only after listening to the talks by Buddhist monks and studying some suttas I realized what I was told was all nonsense, it was a ploy to keep their followers from the teachings of the Buddha. Why would God preach for 40 years to confuse people, it is ridiculous, and whoever reads the suttas can immediately see that ploy.One of the popular Vedic perspective (there are several variations) is as follows:
The soul is caged in the body consisting of the 5 gross elements (earth, water, fire, air ether).
The mind, intelligence and ego are subtle elements. After death, the souls transmigrates to the
next body in the subtle vehicle of mind, intelligence and ego.
Liberation is the state where one is freed from bondage and ego is given up (monistic schools) and one merges and become one with Parabrahman which is a state of unlimited joy, or the ego is purified (dualistic schools) and one exists eternally and serves God.
In the monistic school individual identity is given up and one ceases to exist, in the dualistic
school, the identity is maintained as an eternal servant of God.Sir, my main quest is to understand if the concept of a soul was prevalent during the time of the
Buddha and does the Mahayana sect of Buddhism believe in the concept of the soul? Did the Buddha
ever discuss the subject matter?
Since it is obvious that we are not the body or the mind, what are we? All the vedic sects have
a simple answer that we are individual souls (that is the only things they agree in common, other
than that, it is full of contradictions.) Did the Buddha give a simplistic answer to who we are, since we are not the body or the mind?
I am not interested to discuss Brahmaloka, parabrahman ect, I want to learn the Buddha’s teachings. I apologize for bringing up the subject.
There is a difference between Brahmaloka which is the residence of Lord Brahma and Parabrahman, if you are interested you can google it, you will get the details. The dualistic school and monistic school have different concepts of the Parabrahman. The different sects of vedic schools have lot of contradictions.
Fortunately in Buddhism there is only some minor differences, the fundamentals are the same.
I am glad that you have made the Buddha’s teachings available to the world, if possible please
guide me as to which suttas I need to study to get a better understanding.
Thankyou again for creating this site.Very interesting. The teachings of the Buddha are very detailed and complex. I wonder if the followers of the Vedic system introduced the concept of a soul to present a easy to understand
theory of rebirth and continuation of life or if such a concept was already existing during the Buddha’s time.
It is interesting to note that the teaching of Adi Shankara explains liberation as merging into
brahman, after which one ceases to exist. He explains his concept of liberations as ‘Moksha’ where one experiences unlimited bliss and becomes one with Brahman and cease to exist. He teaches that the world is an illusion and there is no concept of eternal God.
Then Ramanuja after about 500 years later, introduced the concept of eternal existence and bliss in a spiritual world which is a lot more appealing to the common man. It is similar to Christianity where one eternally serve God.
I wonder if spiritual teaching were being modified and simplified to make it more appealing to attract more followers.
Also the teachers who certainly were great beings did what was essential for the good of humanity and their goal was to encourage people to live a moral life. Teachings were modified according to time and circumstances.
There is a theory that great teachers have come from immemorial in history to teach what was
relevant according to time and circumstances in different parts of the world.Thanks to Aniduan for the tips, and to TripleGemStudent for the new links.
I especially like the link with the short talks. I like to end my day with a
short dhammatalk and a short meditation session.Hi Aniduan,
For starters, I will do it in three sittings and see how it goes. Can you suggest a talk?
There are so many, rather than just picking one, I thought it would be better to ask you.
I was thinking of listening to (the power of merits) or (what are you waiting for).
The last one I listened to, I did not go back to it and continue, and now I will have to start fresh.
Thanks and wish you all the best on your spiritual journey.
RajHi Aniduan,
Thanks for the info. These talks are between 2 to 3 hours in duration. Unfortunately I am used to dhamma talks which are around an hour in duration.
I listened to part of one of the talks which was interesting, and have not listened to the complete talk yet. It is going to take some time getting used to
listening to long talks. I think it would be possible to listen to such talks if one is attending a retreat and in a favorable environment.
Are you able to listen to the entire talk in one sitting?
RajI cant find words to express my gratitude to Lalji and all the enthusiastic participants of this forum.
I used to go to a meditation camp all the time to find friends and like minded people and
now I have found a bigger and a more well informed group. Everyday I am learning something new and getting a better understanding of the wonderful teachings of the Buddha.
