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Then the sentence in #14 saying this: “This means one is essentially an Anāgami by the time one is fully absorbed in the first Ariya jhāna”, should be read with this logical order:
IF one is fully absorbed in first Ariya jhana THEN one is essentially an Anagami
But that not implying the other direction:
IF one is essentially an Anagami THEN one is fully absorbed in (first or an) Ariya jhana
That last sentence is what I erroneously interpreted.
..anything is not in control. I do not agres. If body would really be out of control, you have a problem. But moving our legs, choosing to do this or that, is not out of control. Urinating, defecating becomes very problematic when this is really out of control, but for most people it is not.
There is also a certain control over the mind. One cannot say, because i cannot concentrate mind on an object for 4 minuten, that this shows mind is not under control. We can control the mind to a certain extent. For example, we can phantasize about a beautiful woman or man and even arise lustful feelings and bodily reactions. We can concentrate on a taks. It is not true that mind is totally out of control.I see the issue of having control as follows:
One of the definitions of anicca I’ve read from Lal is: We cannot maintain things to our satisfaction. (or something similar)
I think that when it is talked about not having control, it is not referred to as no having control never, but to as having control that we cannot maintain as we want forever. When aging we can lose capabilities to the extent of not being capable of controlling when to urinate or defecate, we can develop mental illness, parkinson for example, and not we able to control correctly our body, alzheimer and losing some mindfulness capabilities, etc. We can have accidents too and therefore lose some habilities. Also, when departing from the body, actions with the manomayakaya are not slowed down due to a karaja kaya, and then it is more difficult to reflect on our intentions before doing the actions, i.e. we have less control.
But that does not mean that we never have control. Indeed, there are times when we have control, and it is a precious time for learning Dhamma and practicing dana, sila, and bhavana.As for the anxiety, I think that when a person has not experienced niramisa sukha and reflects too much about anicca, he fills trapped because he begins to understand that (mundane) satisfaction is no possible in the long term and does not know any other kind of satisfaction. That creates friction or restlessness in the mind.
Lal emphasizes the importance of beginning with the mundane eightfold path, and it must be for some important reason. I think it is to allow one’s mind to have glimpses (tastes) of niramisa sukha and to understand that that kind of satisfaction is a better one. When one ho knows niramisa sukha (and also have overcome micca ditthi) reflects on anicca, instead of feeling trapped and generating mental friction, he will recognize a way out of anicca (and then a way out of dukkha and anatta) in niramisa sukha and generate dispassion for this world of 31 realms. Then he begins with the Noble Eightfold Path.
Of course, all I said is what I have understood from what I have read and reflected on. If I have misunderstood something, I beg someone to correct me.
Hi Lal,
When I say “the gandhabba that has lost his body (died)”, I am referring that the physical body died, not the gandhabba.
I know the gandhabba is who sees, hears, etc. with the pasada rupa of each sense hitting the hadaya vatthu, and citta vithi arising from hadaya vatthu as a response. The body is, as you say, just a shell controlled by the gandhabba. The brain computes and sends the sense inputs to the corresponding pasada rupa, hits the hadaya vatthu, from hadaya vatthu arises a citta vithi containing javana citta, and those will be interpreted and executed by the brain.I know that the gandhabba, freed from a dense body (human/animal body), has more capabilities for seeing and hearing, including seen without light, earing without air, and at large distances, but is not able to touch and smell. Being joined with a dense body, I am not sure why (I’ll ask in another thread), the gandhabba has his capabilities inhibited, not being now able to see and hear at distance, and now depends on the physical body sense inputs and the brain.
Now, the doubt was the following. If the gandhabba, out of the body, has more capabilities (except for touching, savoring, and smelling), is his memory also more potent than inside the body?
Your last statement is “The gandhabba may not remember previous lives in different physical bodies.” I am not sure if you mean that the gandhabba may no remember previous lives while inside in different physical bodies, or even free from a physical body it may not remember previous lives it had in previous physical bodies.I know that inside a body a normal gandhabba is not capable of remembering things beyond its physical life. But once the physical body dies, will the gandhabba, now free from the physical body, be capable of remembering things of all its actual bhava, not only its last physical life?
Hello,
I’m referring more specifically when a gandhabba dwells in para loka. I mean, lots OBE reports talk about people that could see and hear from out of the body while maintaining its identity, i.e., knowing who they are, who are its relatives, etc. That is, having access to its life memories.
But why they do not have other life memories? Because they were attentive to the actual (present) critical situation, or because they were still alive?And the main questions: What about the gandhabba that has lost his body (died): can remember only its immediate previous life, or all the lives it had had in its bhava?
For example, someone who is in its 4th life of a human bhava dies and then wanders through para loka. Suppose that in total he has spent 300 years living as human, and 400 years as a gandhabba in para loka. After leaving its last body (that of its 4th life), will he be capable of remembering all the 700 years spent during his actual bhava, or just the more recent years?Thanks
