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“……Otherwise, a matching gandhabba with gati that are a mix of gati of mother and father will be drawn into the womb. That is why a child is likely to have gati which are a mix of the two parents. That is in addition to having physical features of the parents.”
Aren’t Our gathi and inherited abilities for certain subject areas such as music, dance,languages, maths etc etc..partly due to the genes of the parents? Does it mean that gandhabba will also contribute to the abilities and the nature of the personality as a whole in addition?
Hi Akan, Ynot and Siebe,
Thank you for all your explanations, I appreciate all what you say, but what I can’t understand is that if Devas have such mild imperfections, why should we refer to them and say may I be able to develop the characteristics of Devas as ” stated in Devathanussathi bhavana?
Could it be another area of contradictions that would have happened during the time of translation of the original work? Or, have I read / interpreted something incorrectly?Hi Sybe, this is what I can’t understand, if Devas as we have heard are celestial beings with good intentions, how can they entice people to bad things.
Thanks sybe, I cannot open that link. I am not that advanced in dhamma to follow the references, what do they say?
Thanks Lal, my confusion is due to the fact that I am under the impression that all the Devas are good. In Devathanussathi bhavana, as I have read and listened, it is said that bhavanayogis need to think of the five characteristics of the Devas, ( sadhdha , sila, shrutha, thyaaga and pragngna) and develop them within themselves. It is because they possess a higher level of those qualities than humans and that is also the reason for them to be in that realm having left human form. So if Mara likes to entice people for pleasures and also doesn’t know about the consequences of such pleasures, does he lack some of those five qualities?
Thank you Lal for the explanation, I always thought it’s a metaphor, because I remember learning in Daham paasala on Sundays, that Mara’s three daughters Thanha Rathi Raga came and danced to distract Gautama from attaining enlightenment. As I understood later that the three women were the metaphors for Raga, dwesha, moha, I understood Mara too as death. That’s the confusion.
Now the other question that comes to my mind is that how can Mara and other Devas have influence on us? Is it some kind of Devine power? Is it like the belief system of Hinduism where they have so many Gods to whom they worship asking for favours, and offering things with transferring merits? Is it the same Brahma and Deva realms Hinduism refer to as well?Is there a relationship between Mara and death? If he is a Deva what is his role and why was he born in that realm? I always misunderstood Mara as ” thought of death” in one’s mind.
My own experience was that the nature of the Anichcha, dukka, Anatta related to sense pleasures can be understood without referring to rebirth. In fact I had some sort of exhilaration, like a Eureka moment when I found the real meaning of Thilakkana, at a time “rebirth” was in my ” partially believed, but needs to investigate” list.
There is no problem in understanding the occupants of 31 realms; I believe in opapatika births. Does it mean that the number of beings in the 31 realms is a constant and only the forms will change by transition within the 31 realms? When human and animal populations go higher, will there be a decrease in number of beings in other realms keeping the total number somewhat constant? (I would assume that the number of arahants leaving the cycle be smaller). Within the animal realm itself there will be transition from one form to another, however all animal populations seem to be increasing.
I also understand the gandhabba concept and its relationship with a womb or with an egg, and I do not doubt it. What I am trying to understand is the following.
When I say animals, it includes the whole of animal kingdom. Humans can increase the animal population by farming vigorously and breeding selectively for the purpose thereby changing the nature and the natural instinct of animals. In such a situation, are we to understand it as a Kamma vipaka for those populations of animals? Will it affect the gathi of the animals when living under unfavorable conditions such as in restricted spaces and cages? Then, when, for example animals are slaughtered, often they can see and feel death and naturally it will affect the chutipatisandi moment.
Since humans have the control of certain animal populations can I also assume that there will be countless number of gandhabbas are waiting to get in to the wombs of those animals?
The other question is about lower animals like protozoans; their reproduction is by binary fission.
Then there are animals like Euglena ( also, reproduce by binary fission) that shows characteristics of plants as well, and known as an alga too, can be cultured in a micro-aquarium; there are so many research experiments done on these and other animals and the humans have the control in managing their population. They are also grown commercially for food. What will there rebirth be like?
These questions may sound ridiculous as they may not help the path, but as Buddha said in Kalama sutra, I like to think and clear these for myself as biology is still part of my work. However,I am still at the very beginning of the pure dhamma path, but very much addicted to it. Any help and advice is much appreciated.This is a question I often ask myself too; Other than believing in Buddha desana, is there another way? For me, the cooling down process started when I became a mother,however it was not due to my understanding of Anichcha nature of the sense-gratification, which I got to know since my retirement, very accidentally while I was trying to educate myself about my religion by reading and listening to Buddhist literature. I always had a sober way of life for ethical reasons, and brought up my children in a similar way, but never believed in rebirth simply due to the increasing animal and human population in the world.
Commercializations of animal husbandry means, millions of animals all over the world due to the human greed.Then comes the question of protozoans, their replication through binary fission and so on… . These and many other questions I had in my mind, however, I am about 50% there, because of my faith in Buddha who had seen things beyond what science has discovered. I still have the question you have posted.Thank you Christian for sharing your dhamma knowledge and experiences. Your example is a good one. My field is addictive behaviour and often we find that people with addictive behaviors can be signposted towards a useful addition. I have introduced pure dhamma pages and Ajhan Jayasoro’s lectures to many of our clients. It’s truly amazing what the mind can do.
Riding a bicycle is a good analogy Lal, perhaps as you said, I have not attained jhana in my previous livesa and now it may be a long way to go to get that experience of “dhyana sukha”. Nevertheless I am contented as it is, and always have been, but I had this “eureka moment” when I heard Abhaya Thero for the first time and then much of the understanding came after reading the Puredhamma pages.Thank you for giving the insight and merits come to you and all the participants in all the fora, which I read often.
Thank you Lal and Christian. It seems and sounds like an extraordinary experience to have attained a jhana.
Lal, thank you for the post, I have few more queries.
If the gandhabba enters at the time of the application of the electric shock, then, as the percentage of success is low, do we assume that as in the natural process, some gandhabbas will not survive to be a full animal and exit in the womb itself? Now when we say that when a gandhabba finds a matching zygote, is it a selective process? What will be the matching criteria? In addition to bhava, is it proportional to the karmic energy in the gandhabba? When the unsuccessful embryo dies, for some reason such as the effects of the environment on the epigenome etc, will the gandhabba has spent some amount of karmic energy as a result of the shot life in the embryo? Or would it start all over again with the same amount of energy as before, because it hasn’t started life as a full grown living being.? I have another burning question on gandhabba, which I will ask later, once we have dealt with this one.
Thanks
