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You mentioned that she has enough paramittas to understand the Dhamma. So, don’t hesitate and try to work things out in a way that makes both of you cordial. Then, tell her about the Dhamma and allow her to learn. Of course, that doesn’t mean you have to get back together with her. This kind of decision can only be made by you and her. The important thing here is sharing the Dhamma. If you had an attachment to her, it’s because your gati was very similar at one point. Even if you are no longer together, there is still a karmic bond that connects you in some way. You have karmic debts to each other. By giving her this opportunity, you will accumulate a large quantity of paramitas and kusalas, and your path to Nibbāna will be facilitated. If you think she’s open enough to listen, it would be a shame not to try! The gift of Dhamma surpasses all other gifts. You will give her the best thing she could hope to have. 😁
Sabbadanam dhammadanam jinati
The gift of the Dhamma excels all gifts
“Jīvaka, if anyone kills a living being especially for the Tathāgata or a Tathāgata’s disciple, he makes many demerits( Akusalas) for five reasons:
1. When he says: ‘Go and fetch that living being’, that is the first reason for which he makes many demerits.
2. When that living experiences physical pain and mental suffering on being led along with a neck-halter, this is the second reason for which he makes much demerit.
3. When he says: ‘Go and kill that living being’, this is the third reason for which he makes many demerits.
4. When that living being experiences physical pain and mental suffering on being killed, this is the fourth reason for which he makes much demerit.
5. When he provides the Tathāgata or his disciple with food that is not allowable, this is the fifth reason for which he makes much demerit.
Sutta centrale: Jīvakasutta
- Here is a sutta discussing the impact of offering inappropriate food to Bhikkhus during almsgiving. Those people accumulate many akusalas. The sutta also discusses the topic of eating meat. This remains a complex issue even today. For instance, my teacher didn’t eat meat, but other bhikkus did. Ultimately, it’s up to each person to decide what is best for them based on their own circumstances. But we must remember that it is immoral to kill living beings and that we could end up in apayas if our taste for meat leads us to commit akusalas. This is another trap caused by the distorted sanna. He makes us believe that there is a delicious taste in this meat. Because of this attachment to taste we are willing to kill animals to satisfy our desires. See Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā)
- There was an anagami who had a father who ended up in Avīci hell, the worst of the Nirayas because he was a butcher and died in great suffering. His mind was in extreme Dosa. There are many cases where killing an animal can have devastating consequences. The story is in the Goghatakaputta Vatthu.
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Yes, you summed it up well, Davidson. These two things are what set me on the path. If I hadn’t had a certain skepticism, I would never have adhered to the Buddha Dhamma. If I hadn’t had an open mind, I would never have tried to understand the basic concepts of the Dhamma.
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Yes, I completely agree that an Ariya who has cultivated jhanas and cutupapāda ñāna will have a much broader view of his past lives than an anariya yogi. This is an indisputable fact!
Thank you for taking the time to address this issue, sir!
The sutta refers to several Kappas. During this time, they witnessed the destruction and reformation of the earth. It is obvious they also observed their lives in the apayas, as well as in Brahma and other worlds. This is surely why the yogis of the past taught moral living. Sila was known long before the coming of Lord Buddha. Despite this evidence, the human mind is often hindered by micchādiṭṭhi, making it challenging to break free. An example is heliocentrism. It may seem surprising, but some people believe that the Earth revolves around the sun despite evidence to the contrary. It is very hard to come out of micchādiṭṭhi. This is the case of those yogis with iddhi powers. Despite evidence that they have been powerless countless times, they continue to believe in stable happiness in this world. They realized that they couldn’t sustain their lives in other bhavas. Even though it’s Annica’s nature, they struggled to grasp this concept. They continue to believe that they can attain lasting happiness as long as they engage in Jhanas.
3.1.2. Partial Eternalism
It’s possible that one of those beings passes away from that host and is reborn in this state of existence.
Ṭhānaṁ kho panetaṁ, bhikkhave, vijjati, yaṁ aññataro satto tamhā kāyā cavitvā itthattaṁ āgacchati.
Having done so, they go forth from the lay life to homelessness.
Itthattaṁ āgato samāno agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajati.
By dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right application of mind, they experience an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they recollect that past life, but no further.
Agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajito samāno ātappamanvāya padhānamanvāya anuyogamanvāya appamādamanvāya sammāmanasikāramanvāya tathārūpaṁ cetosamādhiṁ phusati, yathāsamāhite citte taṁ pubbenivāsaṁ anussarati, tato paraṁ nānussarati.
They say:
So evamāha:
‘He who is Brahmā—the Great Brahmā, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, God Almighty, the Maker, the Creator, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born—by the we were created. He is permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, remaining the same for all eternity.
‘yo kho so bhavaṁ brahmā mahābrahmā abhibhū anabhibhūto aññadatthudaso vasavattī issaro kattā nimmātā seṭṭho sajitā vasī pitā bhūtabhabyānaṁ, yena mayaṁ bhotā brahmunā nimmitā, so nicco dhuvo sassato avipariṇāmadhammo sassatisamaṁ tatheva ṭhassati.
There are gods named ‘depraved by play.’ They spend too much time laughing, playing, and making merry. And in doing so, they lose their mindfulness, and they pass away from that host of gods.
Santi, bhikkhave, khiḍḍāpadosikā nāma devā, te ativelaṁ hassakhiḍḍāratidhammasamāpannā viharanti. Tesaṁ ativelaṁ hassakhiḍḍāratidhammasamāpannānaṁ viharataṁ sati sammussati. Satiyā sammosā te devā tamhā kāyā cavanti.
It’s possible that one of those beings passes away from that host and is reborn in this state of existence.
Ṭhānaṁ kho panetaṁ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṁ aññataro satto tamhā kāyā cavitvā itthattaṁ āgacchati.
Having done so, they go forth from the lay life to homelessness.
Itthattaṁ āgato samāno agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajati.
By dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right application of mind, they experience an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they recollect that past life, but no further.
Agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajito samāno ātappamanvāya padhānamanvāya anuyogamanvāya appamādamanvāya sammāmanasikāramanvāya tathārūpaṁ cetosamādhiṁ phusati, yathāsamāhite citte taṁ pubbenivāsaṁ anussarati, tato paraṁ nānussarati.
- Here we can clearly see that they recall their Brahma or Deva bhava through meditation. Therefore, I believe it is incorrect to assume that an anariya yogi is only capable of perceiving their human bhava.
Sir Lal, here is a sutta that contradicts the claim about the inability of Anariyas yogi to remember their previous bhavas. Lord Buddha says that they develop wrong views about this. The sutta says that they can remember several Kappas. If we follow this logic, they see other bhavas.
3.1.1. Eternalism
And what is the second ground on which they rely?
Dutiye ca bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā kimāgamma kimārabbha sassatavādā sassataṁ attānañca lokañca paññapenti?
It’s when some ascetic or brahmin—by dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right application of mind—experiences an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they recollect their many kinds of past lives.
Idha, bhikkhave, ekacco samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā ātappamanvāya padhānamanvāya anuyogamanvāya appamādamanvāya sammāmanasikāramanvāya tathārūpaṁ cetosamādhiṁ phusati, yathāsamāhite citte anekavihitaṁ pubbenivāsaṁ anussarati.
That is: one eon of the cosmos contracting and expanding; two, three, four, five, or ten eons of the cosmos contracting and expanding. They remember: ‘There, I was named this, my clan was that, I looked like this, and that was my food. This was how I felt pleasure and pain, and that was how my life ended. When I passed away from that place I was reborn somewhere else. There, too, I was named this, my clan was that, I looked like this, and that was my food. This was how I felt pleasure and pain, and that was how my life ended. When I passed away from that place I was reborn here.’ And so they recollect their many kinds of past lives, with features and details.
Seyyathidaṁ—ekampi saṁvaṭṭavivaṭṭaṁ dvepi saṁvaṭṭavivaṭṭāni tīṇipi saṁvaṭṭavivaṭṭāni cattāripi saṁvaṭṭavivaṭṭāni pañcapi saṁvaṭṭavivaṭṭāni dasapi saṁvaṭṭavivaṭṭāni: ‘amutrāsiṁ evaṁnāmo evaṅgotto evaṁvaṇṇo evamāhāro evaṁsukhadukkhappaṭisaṁvedī evamāyupariyanto, so tato cuto amutra udapādiṁ; tatrāpāsiṁ evaṁnāmo evaṅgotto evaṁvaṇṇo evamāhāro evaṁsukhadukkhappaṭisaṁvedī evamāyupariyanto, so tato cuto idhūpapanno’ti. Iti sākāraṁ sauddesaṁ anekavihitaṁ pubbenivāsaṁ anussarati.
They say:
So evamāha:
‘The self and the cosmos are eternal, barren, steady as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar.
‘sassato attā ca loko ca vañjho kūṭaṭṭho esikaṭṭhāyiṭṭhito
- I highly recommend everyone to read the Brahmajala sutta, an excellent sutta in which Lord Buddha explains the basis of all religions and beliefs that dominate our world today.
Sir Lal: No. That was not done with cutupapāda ñāna. That person did not have cutupapāda ñāna. He could not recall HIS past lives.
- So what can we say about the divine eye? You don’t have to be an Ariya to have it. The divine eye allows one to see several Bhavas and to see the actions which led to the birth of this bhava. They see beings reborn in the apayas or in higher planes. Yogis and Brahmins develop false views regarding this. This is proof that one does not need to be an ariya to possess this ability. If we can see the lives of others we can see our own lives. It’s harder to see other people’s minds than our own. If we follow this logic, they likely see their previous bhava. In this sutta, Lord Buddha explains how yogis and Brahmanas develop micchādiṭṭhi based on this ability.
But some other ascetic or brahmin—by dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right application of mind—experiences an immersion of the heart of such a kind that it gives rise to clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman. With that clairvoyance, they see that person
Idha panānanda, ekacco samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā ātappamanvāya padhānamanvāya anuyogamanvāya appamādamanvāya sammāmanasikāramanvāya tathārūpaṁ cetosamādhiṁ phusati yathāsamāhite citte dibbena cakkhunā visuddhena atikkantamānusakena amuṁ puggalaṁ passati—
here who killed living creatures … and had wrong view. And they see that that person is reborn in a heavenly realm.
idha pāṇātipātiṁ adinnādāyiṁ …pe… micchādiṭṭhiṁ, kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā passati sugatiṁ saggaṁ lokaṁ upapannaṁ.
They say:
So evamāha:
‘It seems that there is no such thing as bad deeds and the result of bad conduct.
‘natthi kira, bho, pāpakāni kammāni, natthi duccaritassa vipāko
However sir this story shows that an anariya can see different Bhava.
Once, in Rajagaha, there was a brahmin by the name of Vangisa who by simply tapping on the skull of a dead person could tell whether that person was reborn in the world of the devas, or of the human beings, or in one of the four lower worlds (apayas). The brahmins took Vangisa to many villages and people flocked to him and paid him ten, twenty or a hundred to find out from him where their various dead relatives were reborn.
On one occasion, Vangisa and his party came to a place not far from the Jetavana monastery. Seeing those people who were going to the Buddha, the brahmins invited them to come to Vangisa who could tell where their relatives had been reborn. But the Buddha’s disciples said to them, “Our teacher is one without a rival, he only is the Enlightened One.” The brahmins took that statement as a challenge and took Vangisa along with them to the Jetavana monastery to compete with the Buddha. The Buddha, knowing their intention, instructed the bhikkhus to bring the skulls of a person reborn in niraya, of a person reborn in the animal world, of a person reborn in the human world, of a person reborn in the deva world and also of an arahat. The five were then placed in a row. When Vangisa was shown those skulls he could tell where the owners of the first four skulls were reborn but when he came to the skull of the arahat he was at a loss.
SIR LAL:Anariya yogis cannot cultivate (ii). That makes their wrong view of sassata ditthi (a “permanent self” moving from life to life) stronger. However, it becomes easier for Ariyas who cultivate (ii) to see the dangers of the rebirth process.
- Sir, are you referring to non-Buddhists or those who are not at the sotāpanna stage? Bhikkhu Isidore has not yet reached the sotāpanna stage, but he is working to develop the paramis to become a supreme Buddha. It appears that he has seen different realms such as animals, niraya, peta, deva, brahma rupa, or arupa. However, no one is obligated to believe what he says.
The future is extremely complex, and only a Lord Buddha can say exactly what will happen. However, the future is not certain; anything can happen, but sometimes it is impossible to change your future. My teacher explained this in one of his speeches with a good example. Let’s consider a boat in the ocean. We all know that the ocean is vast and immense. Consequently, there are several possibilities for this boat—it can go west, east, north, or south. Now, let’s imagine that in its path, there is a large iceberg. The captain of the boat rushes at full speed towards the iceberg. Unfortunately, he realizes too late that he’s going to hit it and wreck the boat. No matter how hard he tries to break, the boat will hit the iceberg (inevitability). Similarly, it is impossible to avoid the consequences of bad anantariya Kamma, no matter what good deeds one does thereafter. Yes, the future can indeed be deterministic. However, we have put in place the causes for this future to be deterministic. Arahant Santati established the causes of his enlightenment in many past lives. We are free to establish the causes but we do not control the good or bad results.
However, if the captain spots the iceberg in advance, he can avoid a collision. The causes that enable avoiding the collision include the captain’s vigilance and maintaining a safe distance from the iceberg. If any of these causes is missing, an accident may occur.
There is a story in the suttas, where Lord Buddha talks about two homeless people who could have become extremely rich by being secular, or who could have achieved magga phala if they became bhikkhus. They had the Kamma necessary to do well on both the mundane and supramundane levels. However, their lack of education was their downfall.Mahadhanasetthiputta Vatthu
- With Jhanas and Iddhis, it is possible to see one’s past lives but also future ones!! However, these lives are not deterministic; they are based on our happiness in the present moment. As long as we maintain this goal, these lives will surely come true. There is a Burmese monk who was a friend of one of my teachers. He developed jhānas and Iddhis. Through this, he was able to see the future lives that awaited him. In many future lives, he is a yogi or bhikkhu who continues to develop good gati, but in some, he falls into apayas as an animal or into nirayas. Please translate it into English or your language, because the site is in French.
The Vision of his past and future lives
Through meditation, we can all access the knowledge of our past lives, which in Pali we call paṭiccasamuppāda ñāṇa. This, however, requires great maturity because this knowledge can only be developed based on jhāna and direct knowledge of cause and effect, nāma rūpa pariccheda ñāṇa.
- To develop paṭiccasamuppāda ñāṇa, our samādhi must first allow us to distinguish moments of consciousness. These appear by the millions in the blink of an eye. Then we direct our mind to the present moment of awareness. Then we follow the link to its cause, that is to say, the previous moment of consciousness. The latter leads us to the knowledge of the one before, and so on. With training, the process speeds up, especially for periods already revisited. As we start from the present, we begin by reviewing our present life, our childhood, our birth, and our gestation. Then immediately behind the first consciousness of our present life, in other words, our fertilization, we become aware of the last consciousness of our previous life, our last death. You can visit this site by going through one page after another. But you can also click on links to directly access certain information.
- On the same principle, we can also access precise information by following kammic links. Compared to the knowledge of our past lives, that of future lives is carried out according to a reversed process. We start from the present moment and then direct our mind towards the awareness that will result from the present awareness, and so on. Knowledge of future lives develops, as it were, on continuity probabilities based on current conditions. However, unlike the past that has already passed, this future seen in advance is not immutable as if everything were pre-established. But it is not completely random either. We are fortunately free from certain choices such as that of applying ourselves to doing what is necessary to progress towards Deliverance. But the margin of free will is very small compared to the mass of conditioning that has shaped our physical and mental behaviour (gati) for so long.
Please don’t forget to read the video description. All the important details are specified there !!
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For further information, please also refer to the Yamakasutta where Venerable Sariputta explains that it is incorrect to believe in annihilation.
Taryal: “The ultimate view transcends both these views and that is the view perfected by an Arahant/Buddha.”
- I’m not sure it’s safe to say that. While reading this sutta, Arahant Khema Theri said that it is wrong to say this. Of course, she said this in the context of parinibbānna but it can apply during the lifetime of an arahant. Arahants do not see an I anywhere.
Khemāsutta: Ma’am, does a realized one still exist after death?”
“kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Great king, this has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā:
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“Well then, does a realized one no longer exist after death?”
“Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“Well then, does a realized one both exist and not exist after death?”
“Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“This has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā:
‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“Well then, does a realized one neither exist nor not exist after death?”
“Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti.
“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti
- Until one becomes an arahant there is no point in speculating. No matter how much we try to convince ourselves, we will always have this belief of the I. Of course, at the sotāpanna stage, the micchādiṭṭhi linked to this have been eradicated but the perception of I will remain until the arahant stage.
PATISALLĀNA SUTTA: DISCOURSE ON SECLUSION
There, the Buddha addressed the monks,
“Monks”,
“Yes, Venerable Sir”, the monks replied.
Then the Buddha said:
“Monks, devote yourself to the practice of seclusion. Monks, a monk in seclusion understands true reality. And what is the true reality that he understands? The arising and passing away of form; the arising and passing away of feeling; the arising and passing away of perception; the arising and passing away of mental formation and the arising and passing away of consciousness.”
[In the Mahā Niddesa of the Niddesa, which is the 11th book of the Khuddaka Nikāya (collection of the Buddha’s minor discourses), three types of seclusion have been mentioned:
1. Kāya Viveka – Physical seclusion
2. Citta viveka – Mental seclusion
3. Upadhi Viveka – Seclusion from the substrates
Physical seclusion can be described as keeping away from one’s physical environment: people, things, and activities, that can disturb and distract a meditator from the practice of meditation and contemplation. Mental seclusion is the seclusion from the mental defilements known as the mental hindrances (nīvarana) which hinder the development of the mind during meditation. The five mental hindrances are Sensual desire (kāmacchanda), ill-will (vyāpāda), sloth and torpor (thīna-middha), restlessness and remorse (uddhacca-kukkucca) and skeptical doubt (vicikiccā). They can obstruct the development of the concentration of the mind (samādhi) and weaken the development of insight into the reality of phenomena. Seclusion from substrates means liberation from the burdens of all attachments and objects of clinging which happens when one gains enlightenment through the eradication of all mental defilements.
- First seclusion is the most challenging for lay people due to their family or societal obligations, which can cause a lot of stress. This step is easier for Bhikkhus. Being isolated from the first seclusion makes it easier to be isolated from the other as well. This is why it’s easier to achieve arahant stage as a Bhikkhu. A person who has achieved arahant status will naturally want to distance themselves from worldly matters such as family, business, wealth, and fame. The second seclusion becomes easier as one progresses through the magga phala. At the sotāpanna and sakadagamin stage, we are isolated from micchādiṭṭhi (wrong views), skeptical doubt (vicikiccā), and the extreme agitation that leads to committing apayagami acts. In the anagami stage, we are isolated from Kāmacchanda (sensual desire) and ill-will (vyāpāda). In the arahant stage, we are isolated from all hindrances. The third seclusion is only reached at the arahant stage.
I think Pathfinder is referring to the characteristics of this sutta. He is right to want to try to convince others of the benefits of the Dhamma.
WHO IS A LAY BUDDHIST DISCIPLE? MAHĀNĀMA SUTTA
“In what way, Venerable Sir, a lay disciple practises for his welfare but not for the welfare of others?”
“Mahānāma,
When a Buddhist disciple is himself accomplished in faith but does not encourage others to accomplish faith;
when he is himself accomplished in morally virtuous behaviour but does not encourage others to accomplish morally virtuous behaviour;
when he is himself accomplished in generosity but does not encourage others to accomplish generosity;
when he has the desire to see the monks, but does not encourage others to see them monks;
when he has the desire to listen to true Dhamma, but does not encourage others to listen to true Dhamma;
when he remembers the Dhamma he has heard but does not encourage others to remember the Dhamma that they have heard;
when he investigates the meaning of the Dhamma that he has remembered, but does not encourage others to investigate the meaning of the Dhamma;
when he has understood the Dhamma, understood its meaning, and practises by the Dhamma, but does not encourage others to understand the Dhamma, to understand its meaning and to practise by the Dhamma.
“In what way, Venerable Sir, a lay disciple practises for his welfare and the welfare of others?”
“Mahānāma,
When a Buddhist disciple is himself accomplished in faith, and encourages others to accomplish faith;
when he is himself accomplished in morally virtuous behaviour and encourages others to accomplish morally virtuous behaviour;
when he is himself accomplished in generosity and encourages others to accomplish generosity;
when he has the desire to see the monks and encourages others to see the monks;
when he has the desire to listen to true Dhamma and encourages others to listen to true Dhamma;
when he remembers the Dhamma he has heard and encourages others to remember the Dhamma they have heard;
when he investigates the meaning of the Dhamma that he has remembered and encourages others to investigate the meaning of the Dhamma;
when he has understood the Dhamma, understood its meaning, and practises by the Dhamma and encourages others to understand the Dhamma, understand its meaning and practise in aby Dhamma.
However, the others also have a point which is supported by the story of Cunda the butcher.
- Cunda had been a butcher for 55 years. Although he lived close to Lord Gautama Buddha, he never wanted to listen to the Dhamma and no one wanted to teach it either. The commentaries say that the reason was that Lord Buddha saw that he did not have enough Paramis and Kusulas to understand the Dhamma. If Lord Buddha taught it Cunda would insult him and it would be a big akusalas which would block his understanding in a future life. Unfortunately, right now he is in the underworld because of his destructive profession. Lord Buddha ignored it all these years. People don’t like it when people criticize their way of life, whether it’s immoral or not. They express psychological resistance. They say “Why change?” “I have always lived like this, nothing has happened to me.” “We only have one life, we might as well make the most of it.” They don’t realize it until it’s too late. Living well for 55 years before falling into the worst hell nirayas; Avici. The first thing they will do is find flaws in your argument before even trying to understand the deeper points. Getting out of the comfort zone is hard. It’s up to you to see Pathfinder if you can teach friends or loved ones open enough to at least understand the basics of the Dhamma. We must not forget that it is only a Lord Buddha who knows perfectly who to teach.
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