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I am not sure, but perhaps Venerable Arahant Dabba sees that his bhava will end anyway. So, he just decides to end this with his iddhis.
The 5 Gangsters found in the world.
Catutthapārājikasikkhāpada (Vinaya Pitaka)
“Monks, there are these five notorious gangsters to be found in the world.
“Pañcime, bhikkhave, mahācorā santo saṁvijjamānā lokasmiṁ.
What five?
Katame pañca?
There is the notorious gangster who thinks like this:
Idha, bhikkhave, ekaccassa mahācorassa evaṁ hoti—
‘When the heck will I walk about in villages, towns, and royal capitals, with a following of a hundred or a thousand men,
‘kudāssu nāmāhaṁ satena vā sahassena vā parivuto gāmanigamarājadhānīsu āhiṇḍissāmi
killing, destroying, and torturing?’
hananto ghātento chindanto chedāpento pacanto pācento’ti.
Then after some time, he does just that.
So aparena samayena satena vā sahassena vā parivuto gāmanigamarājadhānīsu āhiṇḍati hananto ghātento chindanto chedāpento pacanto pācento.
Just so, monks, a bad monk thinks like this:
Evameva kho, bhikkhave, idhekaccassa pāpabhikkhuno evaṁ hoti—
‘When the heck will I walk about in villages, towns, and royal capitals, with a following of a hundred or a thousand people,
‘kudāssu nāmāhaṁ satena vā sahassena vā parivuto gāmanigamarājadhānīsu cārikaṁ carissāmi
being honored, respected, and revered by both lay people and those gone forth, getting robes, almsfood, dwellings, and medicinal supplies?’
sakkato garukato mānito pūjito apacito gahaṭṭhānañceva pabbajitānañca, lābhī cīvarapiṇḍapātasenāsanagilānappaccayabhesajjaparikkhārānan’ti.
Then after some time, he does just that.
So aparena samayena satena vā sahassena vā parivuto gāmanigamarājadhānīsu cārikaṁ carati sakkato garukato mānito pūjito apacito gahaṭṭhānañceva pabbajitānañca, lābhī cīvarapiṇḍapātasenāsanagilānappaccayabhesajjaparikkhārānaṁ.
This is the first notorious gangster to be found in the world.
Ayaṁ, bhikkhave, paṭhamo mahācoro santo saṁvijjamāno lokasmiṁ.
Or a bad monk learns the spiritual path proclaimed by the Buddha and takes it as his own.
Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, idhekacco pāpabhikkhu tathāgatappaveditaṁ dhammavinayaṁ pariyāpuṇitvā attano dahati.
This is the second notorious gangster to be found in the world.
Ayaṁ, bhikkhave, dutiyo mahācoro santo saṁvijjamāno lokasmiṁ.
Or a bad monk groundlessly charges someone living a pure spiritual life with a sexual offense.
Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, idhekacco pāpabhikkhu suddhaṁ brahmacāriṁ parisuddhaṁ brahmacariyaṁ carantaṁ amūlakena abrahmacariyena anuddhaṁseti.
This is the third notorious gangster to be found in the world.
Ayaṁ, bhikkhave, tatiyo mahācoro santo saṁvijjamāno lokasmiṁ.
Or a bad monk takes valuable goods and requisites from the Sangha—
Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, idhekacco pāpabhikkhu yāni tāni saṅghassa garubhaṇḍāni garuparikkhārāni, seyyathidaṁ—
a monastery, the land of a monastery, a dwelling, the site of a dwelling, a bed, a bench, a mattress, a pillow, a metal pot, a metal jar, a metal bucket, a metal bowl, a machete, a hatchet, an ax, a spade, a chisel, a creeper, bamboo, a reed, grass, clay, wooden goods, earthenware goods—
ārāmo ārāmavatthu vihāro vihāravatthu mañco pīṭhaṁ bhisi bibbohanaṁ lohakumbhī lohabhāṇakaṁ lohavārako lohakaṭāhaṁ vāsi parasu kuṭhārī kudālo nikhādanaṁ valli veḷu muñjaṁ pabbajaṁ tiṇaṁ mattikā dārubhaṇḍaṁ mattikābhaṇḍaṁ,
and uses them to bribe and create a following among householders.
tehi gihiṁ saṅgaṇhāti upalāpeti.
This is the fourth notorious gangster to be found in the world.
Ayaṁ, bhikkhave, catuttho mahācoro santo saṁvijjamāno lokasmiṁ.
But in this world with its gods, lords of death, and supreme beings, in this society with its monastics and brahmins, its gods and humans, this is the most notorious gangster of all: one who claims to have a non-existent superhuman quality.
Sadevake, bhikkhave, loke samārake sabrahmake sassamaṇabrāhmaṇiyā pajāya sadevamanussāya ayaṁ aggo mahācoro yo asantaṁ abhūtaṁ uttarimanussadhammaṁ ullapati.
Why is that?
Taṁ kissa hetu?
Monks, you’ve eaten the country’s almsfood by theft.”
Theyyāya vo, bhikkhave, raṭṭhapiṇḍo bhutto”ti.
“Whoever should declare himself
Aññathā santamattānaṁ,
To be other than he truly is,
aññathā yo pavedaye;
Has eaten this by theft,
Nikacca kitavasseva,
Like a cheater who has deceived.
bhuttaṁ theyyena tassa taṁ.
Many ocher-necks of bad qualities,
Kāsāvakaṇṭhā bahavo,
Uncontrolled and wicked—
pāpadhammā asaññatā;
By their wicked deeds,
Pāpā pāpehi kammehi,
They are reborn in hell.
nirayaṁ te upapajjare.
It’s better to eat an iron ball,
Seyyo ayoguḷo bhutto,
As hot as a licking flame,
tatto aggisikhūpamo;
Than for the immoral and uncontrolled
Yañce bhuñjeyya dussīlo,
To eat the country’s alms.”
raṭṭhapiṇḍaṁ asaññatoti.
- I added this passage from the Vinaya Pitaka to illustrate the danger that the life of bhikkhus can represent on a spiritual level if someone has bad intentions. Monks who abuse lay people by taking advantage of them and being hypocritical face rebirth in the nirayas. Lord Buddha calls them gangsters. They accumulate more akusala than a psychopath or a mass murderer like King Leopold II. When I first read this, I was surprised. However, by analyzing we can see that it is the Sangha which is the guardian of the Sasana. If people lose confidence in the Sangha, the Sasana will disappear. People will insult monks and some of these monks may be ariyas. Insulting ariyas is an obstacle to attaining magga phala. With the disappearance of the Buddha Dhamma, people will have no chance of reaching Nibbāna, and worse, the vast majority of humans will find themselves in the 4 apayas for entire eons and these monks will suffer in the nirayas for a long time. The monks who caused the loss of trust in Sasana are far more dangerous than mass murderers. We need to be careful as laypeople not to get fooled by these types of monks.
It would be better for your bellies to be cut open with a sharp butcher’s knife than for you to talk up one another’s superhuman qualities to householders.
Varaṁ tumhehi, moghapurisā, tiṇhena govikantanena kucchi parikanto, na tveva udarassa kāraṇā gihīnaṁ aññamaññassa uttarimanussadhammassa vaṇṇo bhāsito.
Why is that?
Taṁ kissa hetu?
For although it might cause death or death-like suffering,
Tatonidānañhi, moghapurisā, maraṇaṁ vā nigaccheyya maraṇamattaṁ vā dukkhaṁ,
it would not cause you to be reborn in a bad destination.
na tveva tappaccayā kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā apāyaṁ duggatiṁ vinipātaṁ nirayaṁ upapajjeyya.
Thank you for this additional clarification, Sir. When one starts to study the Buddha Dhamma, it can be shocking to realize that it is possible to eliminate all desires. Most people are frightened by this idea. They might think, “Why should I let go of my desires?” or “Does this mean I won’t love my wife anymore?” This reaction resembles that of someone who has never taken a bath in their life, fearing the experience of being washed. Many people believe it is impossible.
I remember when I spoke about Lord Buddha to people, they thought that such a person does not exist. No human can lose cravings unless they have medical conditions. I said to myself, these people are like thieves who think that everyone steals and, therefore, stealing is the normal thing to do for them. It is extremely difficult to understand the Buddha Dhamma.
However, for the sake of monks who have not overcome the Kāma ragā, Lord Buddha established pācittiya 6 in the Vinaya. This rule prohibits all bhikkhus from sleeping in the same house as a woman. The reason for this rule comes from an incident. Venerable Arahant Anuruddha needed a place to sleep at night. A woman suggested that he spend the night at her inn. This woman was in love with Venerable Anuruddha. She found him attractive and wanted to have sex with him. She asked him to sleep in the main house and tried to seduce him. Obviously, as an arahant, Venerable Anuruddha did not feel the slightest desire. The Lord Buddha put this rule for the sake of the bhikkhus puthujunas who might be tempted and break the parajika 1. Let us not forget that those who commit a parajika are expelled for life from the Sangha. A sotāpanna is incapable of committing an action which will result in his expulsion or which will prevent him from becoming a bhikkhu. For example, a man who has seduced a bhikkunis cannot be accepted into the Sangha. The same thing for a woman who seduced a bhikkhu. A sotāpanna is incapable of doing that.
At one time when the Buddha was staying at Sāvatthī in Anāthapiṇḍika’s Monastery,
Tena samayena buddho bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.
Venerable Anuruddha was walking through the Kosalan country on his way to Sāvatthī, when one evening he arrived at a certain village.
Tena kho pana samayena āyasmā anuruddho kosalesu janapade sāvatthiṁ gacchanto sāyaṁ aññataraṁ gāmaṁ upagacchi.
Just then a woman in that village had prepared her guesthouse. Sp 2.55: Āvasathāgāranti āgantukānaṁ vasanāgāraṁ, “A house for visitors to stay.”
Tena kho pana samayena tasmiṁ gāme aññatarissā itthiyā āvasathāgāraṁ paññattaṁ hoti.
Anuruddha went to that woman and said, “If it’s not inconvenient for you, I’d like to stay in your guesthouse for one night.”
Atha kho āyasmā anuruddho yena sā itthī tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā taṁ itthiṁ etadavoca—“sace te, bhagini, agaru, vaseyyāma ekarattaṁ āvasathāgāre”ti.
“Please stay, venerable.”
“Vaseyyātha, bhante”ti.
Other travelers also went to that woman and said, “Ma’am, if it’s not troublesome for you, we’d like to stay in your guesthouse for one night.”
Aññepi addhikā yena sā itthī tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā taṁ itthiṁ etadavocuṁ—“sace te, ayye, agaru vaseyyāma ekarattaṁ āvasathāgāre”ti.
“Sirs, a monastic is already staying there. If he agrees, you may stay.”
“Eso kho ayyo samaṇo paṭhamaṁ upagato; sace so anujānāti, vaseyyāthā”ti.
Those travelers then approached Anuruddha and said, “If you don’t mind, venerable, we’d like to stay one night in the guesthouse.”
Atha kho te addhikā yenāyasmā anuruddho tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmantaṁ anuruddhaṁ etadavocuṁ—“sace te, bhante, agaru, vaseyyāma ekarattaṁ āvasathāgāre”ti.
“No problem.”
“Vaseyyātha, āvuso”ti.
Now as soon as that woman had seen Anuruddha, she had fallen in love with him.
Atha kho sā itthī āyasmante anuruddhe saha dassanena paṭibaddhacittā ahosi.
She now went to him and said, “Sir, you won’t be comfortable surrounded by these people.
Atha kho sā itthī yenāyasmā anuruddho tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmantaṁ anuruddhaṁ etadavoca—“ayyo, bhante, imehi manussehi ākiṇṇo na phāsu viharissati.
Why don’t I prepare a bed for you in the main house?”
Sādhāhaṁ, bhante, ayyassa mañcakaṁ abbhantaraṁ paññapeyyan”ti.
Anuruddha consented by remaining silent.
Adhivāsesi kho āyasmā anuruddho tuṇhībhāvena.
After preparing a bed in the main house, she put on jewelery and perfume, and she went to Anuruddha and said,
Atha kho sā itthī āyasmato anuruddhassa mañcakaṁ abbhantaraṁ paññapetvā alaṅkatappaṭiyattā gandhagandhinī yenāyasmā anuruddho tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmantaṁ anuruddhaṁ etadavoca—
“You’re attractive, sir, and so am I.
“ayyo, bhante, abhirūpo dassanīyo pāsādiko, ahañcamhi abhirūpā dassanīyā pāsādikā.
Why don’t you take me as your wife?”
Sādhāhaṁ, bhante, ayyassa pajāpati bhaveyyan”ti.
But Anuruddha remained silent.
Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā anuruddho tuṇhī ahosi.
She said the same thing a second time, but again got no response.
Dutiyampi kho …pe…
And a third time she said,
tatiyampi kho sā itthī āyasmantaṁ anuruddhaṁ etadavoca—
“You’re attractive, sir, and so am I.
“ayyo, bhante, abhirūpo dassanīyo pāsādiko, ahañcamhi abhirūpā dassanīyā pāsādikā.
Why don’t you take me and all this property?”
Sādhu, bhante, ayyo mañceva paṭicchatu sabbañca sāpateyyan”ti.
Once again Anuruddha remained silent.
Tatiyampi kho āyasmā anuruddho tuṇhī ahosi.
She then threw off her wrap, and she walked back and forth, stood, sat down, and lay down in front of him.
Atha kho sā itthī sāṭakaṁ nikkhipitvā āyasmato anuruddhassa purato caṅkamatipi tiṭṭhatipi nisīdatipi seyyampi kappeti.
But Anuruddha controlled his senses and neither looked at nor spoke to her.
Atha kho āyasmā anuruddho indriyāni okkhipitvā taṁ itthiṁ neva olokesi napi ālapi.
Then that woman said, “It’s astonishing and amazing.
Atha kho sā itthī—“acchariyaṁ vata bho, abbhutaṁ vata bho.
Many people pay a hundred or a thousand coins to be with me.
Bahū me manussā satenapi sahassenapi pahiṇanti.
But this monastic doesn’t want me and all this property, even when I beg him!”
Ayaṁ pana samaṇo—mayā sāmaṁ yāciyamāno—na icchati mañceva paṭicchituṁ sabbañca sāpateyyan”ti
Thank you for the explanations, Sir🙏🏿. It’s still extraordinary the difference between the magga phalas. Ugga was an anagami and could live with 4 women without feeling the slightest desire. Purāṇa was a Sakadāgāmi and rejected all sexual relations, but he did not eliminate Kāma ragā saṁyojana. However, a single life is conducive to developing higher stages (Anagami/Arahant).
I would like to add something. As long as we are not sotāpanna, 99% of our actions have the potential to bring us into one of the 4 apayas. An ariyas up to the Sakadāgāmi stage can still enjoy the pleasures of this world without ever committing immoral acts to maintain them. I remember the story of two brothers Sakadāgāmis Isidatta and Purāṇa. Purāṇa’s daughter said that her father renounced all sexual acts, but her uncle Isidatta continued to have sexual relations. She explains that she is confused. “How can the chaste and the unchaste have the same realization?” It would be better if Sir Lal or someone would look at this sutta and explain it to make it clearer. I think that can help explain this discussion in some sense.
“Honorable Ānanda, how on earth are we supposed to understand the teaching taught by the Buddha, when the chaste and the unchaste are both reborn in exactly the same place in the next life?
“Kathaṁ kathaṁ nāmāyaṁ, bhante ānanda, bhagavatā dhammo desito aññeyyo, yatra hi nāma brahmacārī ca abrahmacārī ca ubho samasamagatikā bhavissanti abhisamparāyaṁ.
My father Purāṇa was celibate, set apart, avoiding the vulgar act of sex.
Pitā me, bhante, purāṇo brahmacārī hoti ārācārī virato methunā gāmadhammā.
When he passed away the Buddha declared that, since he was a once-returner, he was reborn in the host of joyful gods.
So kālaṅkato bhagavatā byākato: ‘sakadāgāmī satto tusitaṁ kāyaṁ upapanno’ti.
But my uncle Isidatta was not celibate; he lived content with his wife.
Pitāmaho me, bhante, isidatto abrahmacārī ahosi sadārasantuṭṭho.
When he passed away the Buddha also declared that, since he was a once-returner, he was reborn in the host of joyful gods.
Sopi kālaṅkato bhagavatā byākato: ‘sakadāgāmī satto tusitaṁ kāyaṁ upapanno’ti.
How on earth are we supposed to understand the teaching taught by the Buddha, when the chaste and the unchaste are both reborn in exactly the same place in the next life?”
Kathaṁ kathaṁ nāmāyaṁ, bhante ānanda, bhagavatā dhammo desito aññeyyo, yatra hi nāma brahmacārī ca abrahmacārī ca ubho samasamagatikā bhavissanti abhisamparāyan”ti?
Me and Yash had a discussion about polygamy and polyandry. We disagreed on whether it was immoral or not. We only had small misunderstandings!
Yash: Would a sotappana commit adultery if the society is okay with it?
A sotāpanna will never willingly do something that will cause fear and hate to other beings. Even if his society is immoral in certain things. He or she instinctively knows what to do or what not to do. They have always a moral compass. If they do, evil actions, it is because of extreme pressure and without pleasure. They can’t never take pleasure in wrongdoings. Venerable Waharaka Thero explains what the sotāpanna eliminated in this 4-minute video. Please watch until the end.
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Engaging in sensual activities can be damaging in the long run because that maintains us in the Samsāra. This is why we must strive to become arahant. King Bimbisāra is assured of attaining Nibbāna in seven bhava, even though he had several wives. Some yogis live in seclusion and attain jhānas without becoming sotāpanna. While they may go to the Brahma worlds after death, they are not free from the four apayas and, consequently, from Kāma raga. King Bimbisāra will inevitably be free from Kāma raga after his seven bhavas.
Even pursuing degrees through education can be linked to Kāma raga. Many crave recognition and the sensory benefits that come with it. In India, there are extremely tough exams to enter the civil service. Why do people aspire to public service? Is it really for survival, or to gain advantages? Some individuals manage to survive with minimal education, such as Dalits (those outside of the caste system). Why not follow that path? After all, we just need the basics: shelter, food, medicine, and clothing. There seems to be no need for extensive studies to obtain these necessities, right? Most people desire more than just the minimum, often driven by pride. Isn’t this a form of Kāma raga?
From the perspective of Buddha Dhamma, there is nothing immoral with having a doctorate or living comfortably with considerable wealth. However, according to Anagamis and Arahants, it can still be seen as greed (Therefore dommageable for our liberation), even if no harm is caused in the process. This is why they refrain from such pursuits. Monks don’t need to own any money; why do you have a bank account? Bhikkhus demonstrate that we can live without a bank account, even if society suggests otherwise.
The same applies to people who are single, married, or have multiple spouses. Everyone has their own tendencies. King Bimbisāra and Venerable Ananda were both sotāpanna. They deserve our admiration because they have eliminated 99% of the suffering associated with Samsāra. One continued to enjoy his relationships. Does that make him immoral? As long as they don’t cause mental and physical suffering to others, there is nothing wrong. A sotāpanna will never willingly engage in this kind of action. The key is to become sotāpanna to ensure that one can achieve anagami or arahant status and, thus, be free from sensual pleasures.
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King Bimbisāra was a sotāpanna and he had several wives.
Bimbisāra’s chief queen was Kosaladevī (q.v.), daughter of Mahākosala and sister of Pasenadi. On the day of her marriage, she received, as part of her dowry, a village in Kāsi, for her bath money. Her son was Ajātasattu (also J.iii.121). Bimbisāra had other wives as well; Khemā, who, at first, would not even visit the Buddha till enticed by Bimbisāra’s descriptions of the beauties of Veluvana; and the courtesan Padumavatī, who was brought from Ujjenī, with the help of a Yakkha, so that Rājagaha might not lack a Nagarasobhinī. Both these later became nuns. Padumavatī’s son was Abhaya. Bimbisāra had another son by Ambapālī, known as Vimala Kondañña, and two others, by different wives, known as Sīlava and Jayasena. A daughter, Cundi, is also mentioned.
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The anagami who had four wives was Ugga
I had four teenage wives.
Tassa mayhaṁ, bhante, catasso komāriyo pajāpatiyo ahesuṁ.
And I went to them and said:
Atha khvāhaṁ, bhante, yena tā pajāpatiyo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā tā pajāpatiyo etadavacaṁ:
‘Sisters, I’ve undertaken the five training rules with celibacy as fifth.
‘mayā kho, bhaginiyo, brahmacariyapañcamāni sikkhāpadāni samādinnāni.
If you wish, you may stay here, enjoy my wealth, and do good deeds. Or you can return to your own families.
Yā icchati sā idheva bhoge ca bhuñjatu puññāni ca karotu, sakāni vā ñātikulāni gacchatu.
Or would you prefer if I gave you to another man?’
Hoti vā pana purisādhippāyo, kassa vo dammī’ti?
When I said this, my eldest wife said to me:
Evaṁ vutte, sā, bhante, jeṭṭhā pajāpati maṁ etadavoca:
‘Master, please give me to such-and-such a man.’
‘itthannāmassa maṁ, ayyaputta, purisassa dehī’ti.
Then I summoned that man. Taking my wife with my left hand and a ceremonial vase with my right, I presented her to that man with the pouring of water.
Atha kho ahaṁ, bhante, taṁ purisaṁ pakkosāpetvā vāmena hatthena pajāpatiṁ gahetvā dakkhiṇena hatthena bhiṅgāraṁ gahetvā tassa purisassa oṇojesiṁ.
But I can’t recall getting upset while giving away my teenage wife.
Komāriṁ kho panāhaṁ, bhante, dāraṁ pariccajanto nābhijānāmi cittassa aññathattaṁ.
This is the third incredible and amazing quality found in me.
Ayaṁ kho me, bhante, tatiyo acchariyo abbhuto dhammo saṁvijjati.
Cat, if I understand your situation correctly, you want to live as far away from the causes of greed and sensuality as possible. I understand, but as Sir Lal and Yash explained, there is nothing wrong with earning money and cooking for yourself. Many great lay disciples of Lord Buddha were millionaires (today they would have billions!). Of course, they had more than the minimum. However, they managed to attain the sotāpanna stage and other stages while retaining their fortunes. Lord Buddha’s father, King Suddhodana became an anagami and continued to fulfill his duty as a monarch.
So there is nothing wrong with money and food. What is bad is acting with ignorance (believing that food will give us happiness), greed (wanting to have all the food for yourself), and anger (eating to alleviate sadness). The same thing applies to money and the other 3 necessities (clothes, houses and medicine).
You seem inclined towards a life of total renunciation. I suggest only one thing to you, my friend, go and live in the company of the Noble Maha Sangha of Jethavaranama monastery. You have two choices there: either you train for two years to become a monk, or you stay as an anagarika with 10 precepts. The monastery will help you with the visa etc. Don’t wait, my friend; follow your desire to live the Dhamma fully. If you are interested, I can put you in contact with Sir Harsha, who is the layman responsible for organizing meetings with Bhikkhus. Ask advice from the venerable bhikkhus of the monastery and make a decision on what you want to do my friend.
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Hello Cat! In your first response, you mentioned the importance of the noble Maha Sangha. If you would like to speak with bhikkhus, the monks at Jethavaranama Monastery organize online personal meetings with laypeople. They can provide you with advice tailored to your situation on your path.
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Yes, Bhante also said that it’s almost impossible for an average human to truly know what it feels like to have no desire for anything. The majority of humans are frightened by the idea of losing their desires. To have a better idea, one must be at least a sotāpanna!
- To make sure I understand. Suppose a restaurant distributes rotten food to 5 people. The first person is an average human, the second is a sotāpanna, the third is a sakadāgāmi, the fourth is an anagami and the last is an arahant. The average human will generate disgust and anger(Dosa). He may even want to attack the restaurant owner physically or verbally. He may even try to close the restaurant by suing them. The Sotāpanna and the Sakadāgāmi will be disgusted and may generate mental aversion (Patigha), but they will not want to attack the restaurant owner or the restaurant. The anagami and the arahant will just tell themselves that it is not appropriate to eat rotten food because it is disgusting for the human body, but they will not generate the slightest trace of aversion(Patigha) and will always be in the 4 Brahmas viharas (Metta, Karuna, Mudita and Uppekha).
