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“People who wrote those “holy books” had no clue about “distorted perception” so instead of pointing out the delusions of the mind, they blame the women instead. Little did the so-called “prophet” know that an anagami could be swarmed by naked women and not generate a trace of lust.”
- One thing I notice on this forum, some insult other religions as idiots and imbeciles. This is a wrong speech and, therefore, an Akusala Kamma. You accumulate demerit no matter the target of your insult.
- I see a lot of hatred towards non-Buddhist religions. My question to you is how will this advance you towards Nibbāna?? Do you know that Puredhamma is public on the internet? If non-Buddhists like Muslims and Christians come to this site to learn the Dhamma and see that you insult their religion what will they think?? I find it dangerous because this kind of behaviour will scare away people who could have had the merit to understand the articles on this site. Your rhetoric is the same that the Buddhist radicals in Sri Lanka and Burma use to hate non-Buddhists. Your own path to Nibbāna will be blocked. What do you know about Jesus and Muhammad?? I know that many Indians and Nepalese have hatred towards everything related to Islam and Arabs. How will this hatred lead you to Nibbāna?! I understand that according to Buddha Dhamma, they are wrong, but can you say with certainty that you are free from micchādiṭṭhi and that you are sotāpanna??!
The Buddha Dhamma is indeed the ultimate and supreme truth of nature. Nothing and no one can reach the infinite wisdom of a Lord Buddha. Even an arahant cannot completely describe a Lord Buddha. Only another SammāsamBuddha is capable of doing so. I had read somewhere that even a Maha Kappa would not be enough for a SammāsamBuddha to describe another. One can only accept this with faith, wisdom and the practice of Dhamma. However, if the ultimate truth, that is, the Dhamma, has been twisted, do you think that other religions are free from misinterpretation??? Islam is 1400 years old and Christianity is 2000 years old. The Buddha Dhamma is 2500-2600 years old. The distortion of the Dhamma happened only less than 500 years after the Parinibbāna of Lord Buddha. In 2000 years and 1400 years, many things can change, and the truth can be distorted. I sincerely believe that Islam today and Christianity today have lost their real meaning. Why do I think this? Jethavaranama Monastery said something that shocked me during a sermon. Most Venerable Bhante Nivanthapa Thero (Abbot of the monastery) told the audience, “Give me the bible, the Quran and the Bhagavad Gita, and I will show you Nibbāna.”
- That is why a large majority of Jethavaranama’s audience are non-Buddhists. Many Christians and Muslims come to their sermon in Colombo. They enjoy their sermon and come back again and again. Their detractors are other Buddhists who do not agree with their interpretation of Tilakkhana. You want to know why they are successful? They have a quality that many Buddhists today seem to lack; Metta loving-kindness and Karuna compassion. Many Buddhists today want to have an academic knowledge of the Dhamma and delude themselves about their level on the path. They teach the Dhamma coldly and arrogantly. I admit I am like that. I have learned that one must put aside this arrogance and be a listener. Bhante Maitri (Daniel St) told me that Bhante Amadassana Thero can attract many non-Buddhists to the Dhamma with his loving-kindness. He radiates great loving-kindness. In the monastery, they have Bible and other religious book classes to show elements of the Dhamma to the non-Buddhist.
Calling people idiots, bastards and saying that they have lived their lives in lies does not help at all. In this Samsāra, we have all been idiots. The worst is that you develop a demerit. One important thing everyone has to start somewhere and do not forget that all these religious leaders Jesus, Prophet Muhammad can be Bodhisattas. Most Venerable Waharaka Thero said that Jesus came to him when he was in meditation. Of course, everyone can doubt but, what is certain is that a bodhisatta starts somewhere. Bodhisattas have always been great religious leaders and great seekers of truth before becoming SammāsamBuddhas. I do not believe that sotāpannas insult other religions even if they know that they are micchādiṭṭhi.
- Most Venerable Bhante Waharaka Thero said that sotāpannas can even be among Muslims and Christians and act like such.
- Of course, they will not believe in this religion, but they will do the rituals like going to the mosque or church to appease their family. This is not sīlabbata-parāmāsa because they do not believe in these rituals. There might be sotāpannas in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. In their hearts, they worship the Triple Gem and have eradicated all micchādiṭṭhis.
For a fortnight he practiced discernment of phenomena one by one.
sāriputto, bhikkhave, aḍḍhamāsaṁ anupadadhammavipassanaṁ vipassati.
And this is how he did it.
Tatridaṁ, bhikkhave, sāriputtassa anupadadhammavipassanāya hoti.
Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, he entered and remained in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.
Idha, bhikkhave, sāriputto vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.
And he distinguished the phenomena of the first absorption one by one: placing and keeping and rapture and bliss and unification of mind; contact, feeling, perception, intention, mind, enthusiasm, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and application of mind.
Ye ca paṭhame jhāne dhammā vitakko ca vicāro ca pīti ca sukhañca cittekaggatā ca, phasso vedanā saññā cetanā cittaṁ chando adhimokkho vīriyaṁ sati upekkhā manasikāro—tyāssa dhammā anupadavavatthitā honti.
What I mean is that the sutta says that Venerable Arahant Sāriputta practiced jhānas for a fortnight. At the end of this fortnight, he reached Nirodha Samapatti. That means he became an arahant. However, in the Dīghanakhautta, he became an arahant by reflecting on the discourse of Lord Buddha. Sutta’s central statement is a contradiction because it says that he realized nirodha samapatti between the time he became sotāpanna and the time he became an arahant. The logical explanation is that he practiced jhānas and nirodha samapatti after becoming an arahant.
You are welcome, Sir !
Sir Lal : Where in MN 74 those statements appear?
- Click on the fourth blue asterisk In the Anupadasutta.
I noticed a contradiction. We agree that when one attains Nirodha samapatti, one automatically becomes an arahant, correct?
This is sutta central explaining : The fortnight between realizing stream-entry while still a student of Sañjaya (Kd 1:23.5.6) and arahantship while overhearing the Buddha teach Dīghanakha (MN 74:5.1).
- How can he become an arahant again if he has already realized nirodha samapatti? The explanation that makes the most sense to me is that he developed nirodha samapatti after becoming an arahant.
Sir Lal : “Nibbāna sukha” is NOT a feeling. It is the absence of suffering.
Me : This statement remind me this sutta !
At one time Venerable Sāriputta was staying near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground.
Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā sāriputto rājagahe viharati veḷuvane kalandakanivāpe.
There he addressed the mendicants:
Tatra kho āyasmā sāriputto bhikkhū āmantesi:
“Reverends, extinguishment is bliss!
“sukhamidaṁ, āvuso, nibbānaṁ.
Extinguishment is bliss!”
Sukhamidaṁ, āvuso, nibbānan”ti.
When he said this, Venerable Udāyī said to him,
Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā udāyī āyasmantaṁ sāriputtaṁ etadavoca:
“But Reverend Sāriputta, what’s blissful about it, since nothing is felt?”
“kiṁ panettha, āvuso sāriputta, sukhaṁ yadettha natthi vedayitan”ti?
“The fact that nothing is felt is precisely what’s blissful about it.
“Etadeva khvettha, āvuso, sukhaṁ yadettha natthi vedayitaṁ.
- This is a very good sutta where Venerable Arahant Sāriputta further explains that the pleasures of Kāma loka, Rūpa loka and Arupa loka are sufferings.They are different from Nibbāna. The explanation given is that an arahant who attains nirodha samapatti is free from suffering. This is noteworthy because Venerable Arahant Sāriputta, who is a pannavimutta, discusses Nirodha Samapatti. He chose one day to experience all the jhānas and samapattis leading up to Nirodha.
- I would like to address a controversial point regarding the Pannavimuttas Arahants. It is often assumed that they are unable to develop jhānas, samapattis, and nirodha samapatti. I will present evidence that may contradict this prevailing belief.
- See the Anupadasutta
Furthermore, going totally beyond the dimension of nothingness, he entered and remained in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.
Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, sāriputto sabbaso ākiñcaññāyatanaṁ samatikkamma nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati.
And he emerged from that attainment with mindfulness.
So tāya samāpattiyā sato vuṭṭhahati.
Then he contemplated the phenomena of that attainment that had passed, ceased, and perished:
So tāya samāpattiyā sato vuṭṭhahitvā ye dhammā atītā niruddhā vipariṇatā te dhamme samanupassati:
‘So it seems that these phenomena, not having been, come to be; and having come to be, they flit away.’
‘evaṁ kirame dhammā ahutvā sambhonti, hutvā paṭiventī’ti.
Regarding those phenomena, he meditated without going near or going away, independent, untied, liberated, detached, his mind free of limits.
So tesu dhammesu anupāyo anapāyo anissito appaṭibaddho vippamutto visaṁyutto vimariyādīkatena cetasā viharati.
He understood: ‘There is an escape beyond.’
So ‘atthi uttari nissaraṇan’ti pajānāti.
Repeated practice of that confirmed this for him.
Tabbahulīkārā atthitvevassa hoti.
Furthermore, going totally beyond the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, he entered and remained in the cessation of perception and feeling. And, having seen with wisdom, his defilements came to an end.
Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, sāriputto sabbaso nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṁ samatikkamma saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ upasampajja viharati. Paññāya cassa disvā āsavā parikkhīṇā honti.
- In the Dīghanakhautta, Venerable Arahant Sāriputta became an arahant by listening to a discourse from Lord Buddha without attaining any jhānas.
Now at that time Venerable Sāriputta was standing behind the Buddha fanning him.
Tena kho pana samayena āyasmā sāriputto bhagavato piṭṭhito ṭhito hoti bhagavantaṁ bījayamāno.
Then he thought,
Atha kho āyasmato sāriputtassa etadahosi:
“It seems the Buddha speaks of giving up and letting go all these things through direct knowledge.”
“tesaṁ tesaṁ kira no bhagavā dhammānaṁ abhiññā pahānamāha, tesaṁ tesaṁ kira no sugato dhammānaṁ abhiññā paṭinissaggamāhā”ti.
Reflecting like this, Venerable Sāriputta’s mind was freed from the defilements by not grasping.
Iti hidaṁ āyasmato sāriputtassa paṭisañcikkhato anupādāya āsavehi cittaṁ vimucci.
- In the Theragatha, he states that he attained arahantship by listening to a Dhamma discourse.
“The Blessed One, the Buddha, the seer
Aññassa bhagavā buddho,
was teaching Dhamma to another.
dhammaṁ desesi cakkhumā;
As he taught the Dhamma,
Dhamme desiyamānamhi,
I lent an ear to get the meaning.
sotamodhesimatthiko.
My listening wasn’t wasted:
Taṁ me amoghaṁ savanaṁ,
I’m freed, without defilements.”
vimuttomhi anāsavo.
“Not for knowledge of past lives,
Neva pubbenivāsāya,
nor even for clairvoyance;
napi dibbassa cakkhuno;
not for psychic powers, or reading the minds of others,
Cetopariyāya iddhiyā,
nor for knowing people’s passing away and being reborn;
cutiyā upapattiyā;
not for purifying the power of clairaudience,
Sotadhātuvisuddhiyā,
did I have any wish.”
- He also confirms that he does not desire to develop iddhi powers. However, arahants who attain Nirodha samapatti automatically possess these powers, and it is beyond their control (Anatta).
- Achieving Nirodha Samapatti is similar to learning how to run; once a person knows how to run, they automatically know how to walk. To reach Nirodha Samapatti, one must have perfected all the jhānas and arupavacaras samapattis. Additionally, to attain iddhis, one must have mastered all four jhānas to perfection.
- All the evidence supports the idea that pannavimutta arahants who wish to develop jhanas, arupavacara samapatti, iddhis, and Nirodha samapatti can do so through focused concentration. It is important to remember that concentration and the removal of the five obstacles are essential for achieving jhānas and arupavacara samapattis. No being is more focused than an arahant, who has not only removed the five obstacles but has completely eradicated them. Most pannavimutta arahants simply choose not to pursue the development of these attainements and focus on the pure citta. Venerable Arahant Sāriputta did develop them to analyze them in detail and understand their causes. It is no surprise that Lord Buddha imparted the Abhidhamma to him.
Thank you for this proof, Sir🙏🏿 I wonder why the majority of buddhist doesn’t want to accept this despite the proof.
Hi Christian can you contact me on my email Vanliergad@gmail.com ?? I have some questions for you. :)
Sir Lal said: I have not investigated such cases in the suttas. If you come across translations with the above meanings, we can look at them.
Yes, I will try to find this !
Thank you for this explanation Sir🙏🏿. The vast majority of Buddhist think that refers to the others realms like the devas world. They don’t want to accept this concept.
You know the explanations of Yash came from the Jethavaranama monastery. This website teaches the same thing as the monastery. However, the monastery organizes online meetings with people. If you are interested you can talk with the monks or lay female anagarikas. Some even came from India. They will help you according to your personal situation on the path. You can contact me on my Email Vanliergad@gmail.com if you are interested. I will not put the personal number of Mr Harsha on the website since that can make complication.
I like Sir Lal’s answer. Sri Lankan and Asian society, in general, is very different from the West. People often forget to put themselves in the context of the times and society. It is certain that from a Western point of view having servants is intolerable. The answer is that Western society practiced savage and primitive slavery. People were castrated and beaten with whips. Slaves were not allowed to educate themselves. In the time of Lord Buddha servants had much greater freedom and could go and listen to sermons on the Dhamma.
I call servants because the masters did not have the right of life or death over them. Unlike in the United States in the 19th century where killing your slave was normal. It was even immoral in the time of Lord Buddha to beat one’s servant. Of course, practices like human sacrifice and forced marriages are immoral and destructive practices! Hunting and fishing are immoral practices and yet it is practiced and encouraged today. It is impossible to find stable and lasting happiness in conditioned phenomena. As long as we do not become ariyas, we will be primitive. A puthujunas can be the most modern man in the world and be reborn as an animal and much worse. This is the true primitive spirit. An ariya can dress in bark skin (Think of Venerable Arahant Bahiya) and achieve the arahant stage.
This suttas shows that beating his servants is a bad things in the society of Lord Buddha.
What is it, ma’am?’
‘Kiṁ, ayye’ti?
‘You’re getting up even later in the day—what’s up with you, wench?’
‘Kiṁ, je, divā uṭṭhāsī’ti?
‘Nothing, ma’am.’
‘Na khvayye, kiñcī’ti.
‘Oh, so nothing’s up, you naughty maid, but you get up even later in the day!’ Angry and upset, she grabbed a door-pin and hit Kāḷī on the head, cracking it open.
‘No vata re kiñci, pāpi dāsi, divā uṭṭhāsī’ti kupitā anattamanā aggaḷasūciṁ gahetvā sīse pahāraṁ adāsi, sīsaṁ vobhindi.
Then Kāḷī, with blood pouring from her cracked skull, denounced her mistress to the neighbors,
Atha kho, bhikkhave, kāḷī dāsī bhinnena sīsena lohitena galantena paṭivissakānaṁ ujjhāpesi:
‘See, ladies, what the sweet one did!
‘passathayye, soratāya kammaṁ;
See what the even-tempered one did! See what the calm one did!
passathayye, nivātāya kammaṁ, passathayye, upasantāya kammaṁ.
How on earth can she grab a door-pin and hit her only maid on the head, cracking it open, just for getting up late?’ Arthaśāstra 3.13.9 says that inflicting punishment (daṇḍapreṣaṇam; cf. Pali daṇḍāpesuṁ at Bi Ss 1:1.38) on a slave is a crime for which a master incurs a fine equivalent to the cost of the slave.
Kathañhi nāma ekadāsikāya divā uṭṭhāsīti kupitā anattamanā aggaḷasūciṁ gahetvā sīse pahāraṁ dassati, sīsaṁ vobhindissatī’ti.
Then after some time the housewife Vedehikā got this bad reputation:
Atha kho, bhikkhave, vedehikāya gahapatāniyā aparena samayena evaṁ pāpako kittisaddo abbhuggacchi:
‘The housewife Vedehikā is fierce, ill-tempered, and not calm at all.’ No blame is given to Kāḷī for her deliberate provocation.
‘caṇḍī vedehikā gahapatānī, anivātā vedehikā gahapatānī, anupasantā vedehikā gahapatānī’ti.
See this also :
- Here is an excellent short sermon of Venerable Waharaka Thero.
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I think it’s ignorant to think that. You say it comes from the Stone Age what defines the Stone Age?? You are putting on Western glasses to judge entire cultures, this is not correct. Polygamy in some societies is a sign of protection. Sometimes a widowed woman chooses to become involved in a polygamous couple to benefit from social and financial security. I will take the example of African societies. The vast majority of men who practice polygamy are wealthy landowners who have the means to provide for several wives and children. Polygamy is a sign of wealth, strength and independence. My grandfather was a polygamist because he had several agricultural properties and could take care of many people. However, at the end of his life, he told his daughter, who is my mother, not to get involved in a polygamous couple and that it is better to have a normal couple. However, saying that people who practice polygamy are immoral is not correct. Are you saying that King Bimbisāra, who is a sotāpanna, and the Bodhisatta were immoral and savage people?? You say this is contrary to a “civilized” society. Tell me what does a civilized society bring that is sustainable and stable in terms of Dhamma?? Does a civilized society produce more ariyas or, on the contrary,, encourage people to get stuck in Kāma loka and end up in apayas?
The society of Lord Buddha will be seen as primitive by materialists today, but, in terms of spiritual levels, it is heaven and earth. The real primitives are found in the apayas. Yet, people these days act like apaya beings to enjoy sensual pleasures. If a primitive society means being without worldly laws and technologies but, being surrounded by ariyas, I will give anything to live there.
