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Sir Lal : He must have fulfilled most of his pāramitā (meaning “setting up the necessary background”) in previous lives.
- In the Jayaddisa Jātaka, Venerable Arahant Angulimala was a cannibal who became a yogi. He changed thanks to the Bodhisatta and decided to renounce the world and became a yogi under the guidance of another great yogi, who was the Venerable Arahant Sāriputta in a past life. He probably developed all jhanas and that’s maybe why it was easy for him to accept the path under the Lord Buddha.
Sir Seng Kiat : This the reason why most people (puthujjana) will take sappurisa as “true person” and assume any “moral person” with the traits or quality of the above “Sappurisa in Various Suttas – Traits & Moral vs Noble Emphasis” chart and will lead one to stages of Enlightenment without the need for the “moral person” to be a “Noble Person.”
- Yes, this is why it is important to clarify this concept. Because many people will think that any highly moral person can enlighten us. This view aligns with “all religions that teach the same, and we need to be a good person”. Of course, morality is good, but the goal is to be free of this Samsāra, not to be a good person. Be good will automatically happens when one progresses in the path of Nibbāna. Sunetta was a highly moral yogi who possessed the jhānas. He led many people in the sugati world with his teachings. However, he was not free from suffering and even fell from the Brahma worlds in the devas world and in the human world. That means noble view needs to come from an Ariya.
His story is told in the Sunetta Sutta and in the Sattasūriyasutta
The Sattasūriyasutta is also linked to this article Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27). The Aggañña Sutta explains how the world is formed, but the Sattasūriyasutta explains how the worlds are destroyed.
Sādhu Sādhu Sādhu how blessed you are, my friend Dosakkhayo 🙏🏿. May you attain the Supreme Bliss of Nibbāna with this noble association 🙏🏿.
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Thank you very much, Stacy and Sir Lal, for your deep replies! Sorry for the late response.
The person is on the social media site Reddit. He is the moderator of the Theravada community there. The people there banned Ven Waharaka Thero’s teaching, so it is useless to discuss with them.
- Once again, Christian, you can say what you want, but as long as you have not renounced the lay life, you are not in a good position to criticize them. Nowadays it is almost impossible to become a Lay Arahant or Anagami. If one is really serious about attaining Nibbāna as quickly as possible one should take the robe immediately. When one does not do so, it is better to avoid criticizing those who do except if they do bad deeds with the robe.
- The life of a bhikkhu is the most suitable one to easily attain all the stages of Nibbāna. The monks of the monastery all want, for the most part, to become arahants. Most Venerable Bhante Waharaka Thero predicted the advent of many arahants. Personally, I believe that Jethavaranama will be the foundation of this advent. Venerable Abbot Bhante Nivanthpa Thero said that their goal is to become arahants nothing else. Of course, everyone is free to believe or not.
- Personally, I prefer to listen to people who have renounced their worldly life and who have committed themselves to the path of Lord Buddha than to simply lay people on an internet forum. As I said, the life of a bhikkhu is not easy. I have tried it personally, and it is not given to everyone. It takes a level of purity to live it fully. It is a double-edged sword. One can either end up like Venerable Arahant Sariputta or like Bhante Devadatta (if he does evil deeds). It is a testament to their sincerity on the path. Of course, there are corrupt bhikkhus, however, they are relatively easy to recognize. You just have to see if they contradict the Tipitaka and teach wrong views. I have not seen anything wrong in their speeches. My example of the Venerable Nanda and the Lord Buddha was to show that there are different ways of teaching the Dhamma. Of course, Lord Buddha is supreme and no one is comparable to him. However, the disciples of Lord Buddha are led to imitate him in different aspects. No one in this world is immune to criticism. Even Lord Buddha has been abused and accused of manipulating, destroying society and sugarcoating as you like to say. Puthujunas might say that Lord Buddha is a manipulator who only wants to keep his younger brother in the Sangha. Venerable Nanda wanted to leave the Maha Sangha if you read the text. No matter what anyone says, Venerable Nanda became an arahant. You can accuse the noble monks of Jethavaranama of sugarcoating and even manipulating, but that will not stop non-Buddhists from following them and even becoming Bhikkhus or anagarikas. In a Dhamma sermon, one must consider one’s audience. Depending on the audience, one must adapt one’s speech. You can see it as sugarcoating if you want. I am 100% sure that you have not watched most of their video. In some videos, they go further and use the Abhidamma. In their Sinhala videos, they go much further than all their English sermons. Sir Lal and anyone who speaks Sinhala can know this. It is better to give up everything that hinders Nibbāna (including worldly life) to be able to better educate others on the path. Criticizing serious bhikkhus while enjoying worldly life is not beneficial.
- This is just my opinion. I learned the Dhamma from bhikkhus. All my knowledge of the stories of the Dhammapada, the suttas, the Vinaya and some parts of the Abhidamma comes from my stay with bhikkhus and anagarikas in Thailand. This is why I revere the Maha Sangha monks and anagarikas. I learned to recognize corrupt bhikkhus, and I can assure you that Jethavaranama truly represents the ideal of the Maha Sangha, therefore far from corruption. This is a community animated by the 4 Brahmas viharas. By discussing almost every week with them and the testimonies of the members of the forum who live there, I can only admire them.
It is not beneficial to dwell too much on this subject. Sir Lal gave excellent advice that it is more important to practice Dhamma than this kind of subject.
This reminds me of the story of Venerable Arahant Nanda, half-brother of Lord Buddha. Do you know how Lord Buddha convinced him to become an arahant??? He promised that if he became an arahant, he would give him many maiden devis as his wives from Sakka’s Harem. I was confused and laughed while reading this. How can a Lord Buddha promise sensual pleasures in exchange for Nibbana?? However, if we analyze it clearly, he has a trap. An arahant will NOT crave anything!!! Venerable Nanda did not seem to understand this.
All this to say that he has unusual methods of teaching the Dhamma!! Jethavaranama Buddhist Monastery uses a particular method too.
Then the Buddha took Nanda by the arm and, as easily as a strong person would extend or contract their arm, vanished from Jeta’s Grove and reappeared among the gods of the thirty-three.
Atha kho bhagavā āyasmantaṁ nandaṁ bāhāyaṁ gahetvā—seyyathāpi nāma balavā puriso samiñjitaṁ vā bāhaṁ pasāreyya, pasāritaṁ vā bāhaṁ samiñjeyya; evamevaṁ—jetavane antarahito devesu tāvatiṁsesu pāturahosi.
Now at that time five hundred dove-footed nymphs had come to attend to Sakka, the lord of gods.
Tena kho pana samayena pañcamattāni accharāsatāni sakkassa devānamindassa upaṭṭhānaṁ āgatāni honti kakuṭapādāni.
Then the Buddha said to Nanda,
Atha kho bhagavā āyasmantaṁ nandaṁ āmantesi:
“Nanda, do you see these five hundred dove-footed nymphs?”
“passasi no tvaṁ, nanda, imāni pañca accharāsatāni kakuṭapādānī”ti?
“Yes, sir,” he replied.
“Evaṁ, bhante”ti.
“What do you think, Nanda? Who is more attractive, good-looking, and lovely—the finest lady of the Sakyan land, or these five hundred dove-footed nymphs?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, nanda, katamā nu kho abhirūpatarā vā dassanīyatarā vā pāsādikatarā vā, sākiyānī vā janapadakalyāṇī, imāni vā pañca accharāsatāni kakuṭapādānī”ti?
“Compared to these five hundred dove-footed nymphs, the finest lady of the Sakyan land is like a deformed monkey with its ears and nose cut off.
“Seyyathāpi, bhante, paluṭṭhamakkaṭī kaṇṇanāsacchinnā;
She doesn’t count, there’s no comparison, she’s not worth a fraction.
evamevaṁ kho, bhante, sākiyānī janapadakalyāṇī imesaṁ pañcannaṁ accharāsatānaṁ upanidhāya saṅkhyampi nopeti kalabhāgampi nopeti upanidhimpi nopeti.
These five hundred dove-footed nymphs are far more attractive, good-looking, and lovely.”
Atha kho imāni pañca accharāsatāni abhirūpatarāni ceva dassanīyatarāni ca pāsādikatarāni cā”ti.
“Rejoice, Nanda, rejoice!
“Abhirama, nanda, abhirama, nanda.
I guarantee you five hundred dove-footed nymphs.”
Ahaṁ te pāṭibhogo pañcannaṁ accharāsatānaṁ paṭilābhāya kakuṭapādānan”ti.
“If, sir, you guarantee me five hundred dove-footed nymphs, I shall happily lead the spiritual life under the Buddha.”
“Sace me, bhante, bhagavā pāṭibhogo pañcannaṁ accharāsatānaṁ paṭilābhāya kakuṭapādānaṁ, abhiramissāmahaṁ, bhante, bhagavati brahmacariye”ti.
- Venerable Nanda became arahant after that ! He refuses to have them.
- A Lord Buddha can reveal Nibbāna in any unusual situation if a person has the merits to comprehend it. This is why he is referred to as the Supreme Master. While the disciples of Lord Buddha do so to a lesser degree. The Triple Gem is truly immeasurable.
Hi Taryal,
I want to sincerely apologize for my harsh words towards you. My manner of speaking was arrogant, and is not a good way to pass a message. I also apologize to anyone else I may have offended. Since none of us can be certain that we are ariyas, we will inevitably make mistakes. Our goal should be to eliminate our micchādiṭṭhis, maintain complete confidence in the noble association of the Noble Maha Sangha, and strive towards Nibbāna (In the long run, no religion or scientific views can help us to do that. Only the Buddha Dhamma can help us).
May the noble Triple Gem bless us all. 🙏🏿☸️🌸
- Criticizing monks is appropriate when they teach wrong views and when they do not respect the Vinaya.
- However, different methods of teaching with the 4 Brahma viharas and Tilakkhana work in the long run. The Venerable monks of Jethavaranama seem to have these qualities.
“I have searched far and wide and have yet to come across anything that is in the same ballpark as Waharaka Thero and Pure Dhamma. In my opinion, Jethavanarama Monastery is no exception. “
- Please, I don’t think we can talk about Venerable Waharaka Thero if we have never seen him. No one in this forum or website has seen Venerable Waharaka Thero in real life. The Venerable Abbot of Jethavaranama Monastery, Bhante Nivanthapa Thero, is a direct disciple of Venerable Waharaka Thero. Everything he has learned comes from him and he is the best person to talk about his master. None of us here can claim to know Venerable Waharaka Thero or understand his teaching better than Bhante Nivanthapa Thero. If we really mastered the Dhamma, we would have given up lay life. That was to answer you, Dawson. Please don’t take it the wrong way. As I said, it would be better to not discuss this subject again.
Sir, it is derogatory to accuse the monastery of sugarcoating or to associate them with political views like saying, “They sound liberal.” I personally don’t think it is appropriate to say that to people who dedicate their lives 24/7 to the Dhamma. That is my personal opinion, Sir. I have been in the company of monks in Thailand and I was one. I have a lot of respect for the Maha Sangha. I am personally sensitive on this subject. Please, I do not want to dwell on this subject any longer.
