- This topic has 11 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 7 months ago by Lal.
September 17, 2022 at 4:54 pm #40426
I now have a hunch that I am almost reaching the last question. I have tried to ask a good question until now, and I am sure you know enough about it. I think I’ve almost done asking a meaningful question, and all that is left is now unnecessary questions. So the challenge I have now is to know when to stop asking questions.
I am carefully examining one possibility. Maybe I’m asking these unnecessary questions because I already know what I need to know. The more I try to find new pieces of the puzzle, the more I fail. The reason why there is no more piece to find is maybe possibly I already have enough. But I’m still thinking. Because it’s not the first time I’ve ever mistaken myself for sotapanna.
Lal. How did you become able to consider trust as a credible understanding method of the world? I think this sentence can sound very strange. I’m trying to figure out the structure of saddhā. The reason why I ask this question is that I thought that the form(image? I don’t know how to put it) of faith I have might be different from the one I actually need to attain sotapanna. So I’d like to compare your form of faith with mine. The reason why this process is necessary is that Buddha Dhamma is different from any teaching I’ve ever seen before. In dealing with this, I had an unknown attitude(Maybe it’s aveccappasāda, I don’t know correctly), and I wondered if I could call it a commonly called belief. Because what ordinary people say is faith and what I have is very different.
What is saddhā? How to explain saddhā? The English word faith is not enough for me. Perhaps pada nirutti can help me. Let me tell you the definition I made based on experience. Saddhā is to give time to me in accord with Dhamma. I can’t find a better expression because of my poor English. It is a definition based on experience, so it may have a broader connotation than it is. Anyway, the saddhā I have experienced is a power that allows me to wait even if the results do not come out immediately, an engine that facilitates me to move forward without fear of what I have not yet understood, and a perception method enables me to make decisions that only logical thinking cannot determine. Saddhā does not function in itself, at least for me. It is more of a conclusion from an understanding of Dhamma.
Anyway, I think that’s all I can say. Let me ask you a question based on Tipitaka.
Avippaṭisāralakkhaṇā saddhā, saddahanā paccupaṭṭhānaṁ. Tassa cattāri sotāpattiyaṅgāni padaṭṭhānaṁ. Evañhi vuttaṁ bhagavatā saddhindriyaṁ bhikkhave, kuhiṁ daṭṭhabbaṁ, catūsu sotāpattiyaṅgesu kusalesu dhammesu.
Peṭakopadesa relates saddhā to sotāpattiyaṅga. Also, it describes that saddhā has avippaṭisāralakkhaṇā. What is avippaṭisāra?
Also, the following is a different paragraph in the same place.
Kathaṁ vicikicchā na bhavati? Idha ariyasāvako buddhe na kaṅkhati, na vicikicchati abhippasīdati, itipi so bhagavāti sabbaṁ. Dhamme na kaṅkhati na vicikicchati sabbaṁ. Yāva taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānanti, iminā dutiyena ākaṅkhiyena dhammena samannāgato hoti. Saṅghe na kaṅkhati …pe… yāva pūjā devānañca manussānañcāti, iminā tatiyena ākaṅkhiyena dhammena samannāgato hoti.
Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhāti na kaṅkhati na vicikicchati adhimuccati abhippasīdati. Taṇhā dukkhasamudayoti na kaṅkhati na vicikicchati. Taṇhānirodhā dukkhanirodhoti na kaṅkhati na vicikicchati. Ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadāti na kaṅkhati na vicikicchati adhimuccati abhippasīdati. Yāva buddhe vā dhamme vā saṅghe vā dukkhe vā samudaye vā nirodhe vā magge vā kaṅkhāyanā vimati vicikicchā dvedhāpathā āsappanā parisappanā anavaṭṭhānaṁ adhiṭṭhāgamanaṁ anekaṁso anekaṁsikatā, te tassa pahīnā bhavanti paṇunnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā.
I think it explains what vicikicca is and how to remove it. Could you explain it in detail?
My personal experience
I’m writing this down because I think this information will be helpful. I was a book lover. I dreamed of becoming a writer. I even thought I wanted to die under a book. But recently, while reading the Pure Dhamma post, I suddenly found out that all the books on my bookshelf are sankata. Then I no longer felt worth looking into them. Considering how much I loved books, this was a real surprise. I couldn’t get enough of the same book over and over again. I used to say this to my friends, half in jest, half in earnest. “If someone shoots at a book, I’ll hold it in my arms and block it with my body.” I lived with the word that books are more precious than life. And yet it was truly astonishing that I received that I don’t want to read any more books. It wasn’t even sad or depressed! At that instant, I felt very calm, safe, and sound. Then I wanted to feel the joy of giving without expecting a price from others. I posted on the Internet that I would just give the books I have. As I packed the books in the box and sent it, I had a feeling that I had never felt before. I don’t know how to express it, but it was like witnessing purifying of my heart firsthand. It was too vivid to deny. I faced the fact head-on that I now don’t need anything else because I’ve already got enough.
September 18, 2022 at 5:51 am #40445
“Saddhā” in the Buddha, Dhamma, and the Saṅgha comes though the comprehension of the true nature of this world (anicca, dukkha, and anatta.)
I have re-written an old post: “Sotapatti Aṅga – The Four Qualities of a Sotāpanna”
Answers to your question, including Q4, are in the above post.
“Kathaṁ vicikicchā na bhavati?” in Q4 means “How does one remove any doubts (about Buddha, Dhamma, and the Saṅgha)“?
– True saddhā comes via removing any doubts about the teachings of the Buddha, i.e., the “wider worldview of the Buddha.” With that understanding, one can “see” how future suffering can be eliminated.
– A huge relief to the mind comes from that, a type of nirāmisa sukha.
Of course, feel free to ask questions to clarify any issues.
September 18, 2022 at 11:53 am #40451
Could you explain the meaning of the word avippaṭisāralakkhaṇā?
September 18, 2022 at 12:42 pm #40452
Yes. “avippaṭisāra” means “one would not be confused about the key concepts of Dhamma.”
– Of course, one may have many questions, but there would be no doubt about how births among various realms arise via anuloma PS and how they can be stopped from arising via patiloma PS.
– That leads to unshakable faith, i.e., “Avippaṭisāralakkhaṇā saddhā.”
P.S. I was trying to give the idea.
– “avippaṭisāra” means “not confused.”
– “lakkhana” means “quality/characteristic/feature,” depending on the context. May be “feature” is better suited here.
September 19, 2022 at 11:38 am #40461
The re-written post and latest answer are enough for me to understand. Thank you lal.
November 9, 2022 at 7:28 am #41309
Regarding avippaṭisāra, is the meaning of the phrase in bold below then something like: “When confusion (about tilakkhana/PS 4NT) is present, the condition for pamojja (joy) to arise is absent”?
“avippaṭisāre asati avippaṭisāravipannassa hatūpanisaṁ hoti pāmojjaṁ, pāmojje asati pāmojjavipannassa hatūpanisā hoti pīti …”
November 9, 2022 at 8:31 am #41310
Yes. Ultimately that is right.
– When one does not understand the true nature of the world (4NT/tilakkhana/PS), one could become confused about how to respond to some arammana or may respond to them unwisely. That leads to the agitation of mind, which is not conducive to the lightness of mind (pāmojjaṁ) and joy (pīti).
The verse that Jorg quoted is in several suttas; see, for example, “Paṭhamaupanisa Sutta (AN 10.3)”
– The English translation there translates avippaṭisāra as “no regrets.” It is related, but not quite the same.
You can read AN 10.1, 10.2, and a few more suttas following AN 10.3. That may help solidify the understanding.
November 9, 2022 at 10:35 am #41311
Thank you, Lal, for clearing that up. I’m glad you also provided a better translation for pamojja as well.
At first, I was slightly confused by the “no regret” part, since regret can be interpreted in different ways in this context.
In the other suttā you provided, this stood out to me:
“Sīlavato, āvuso, sīlasampannassa upanisasampanno hoti avippaṭisāro”
Obviously, without sila, the mind is agitated from the get-go. That automatically leads to the incomprehension of key dhamma concepts and, thus, confusion.
The sequence after that is quite logical and raises no further questions.
November 9, 2022 at 1:19 pm #41313
Some Pali words have closely-related Sinhala words. I was trying to express the Sinhala meaning (ප්රමෝදය) for pāmojjaṁ with “lightness of mind.”
– But it means a bit more “energized” than just “lightness of mind.” It makes one want to “proceed with more vigor” with determination.
November 10, 2022 at 9:01 am #41316
Thank you for the added details!
November 11, 2022 at 10:11 am #41328cubibobiParticipant
In the above-mentioned post:
Sotapatti Aṅga – The Four Qualities of a Sotāpanna
3. …The Buddha asks: “Catūhi, bhikkhave, dhammehi samannāgato ariyasāvako sotāpanno hoti avinipātadhammo niyato sambodhiparāyaṇo. Katamehi catūhi?”
Translated: “Bhikkhus, the ariyasāvaka Sotapanna, free of the apāyā, has four qualities. Which four?”
Does “avinipātadhammo” mean “free of the apāyā”?
November 11, 2022 at 10:35 am #41330
“Does “avinipātadhammo” mean “free of the apāyā”?”
Yes. That is correct.
– That verse comes in many suttas: “76 results for avinipātadhammo“
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.