What is best one can do as lay dhamma follower to become at least anagami?

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  • This topic has 5 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 7 months ago by Lal.
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    • #36508
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      I want to discuss what are the best dhamma practices one can follow as lay follower to become at least anagami before the death?

      I am 22 years old. This is what I think, if you have any more suggestions, please add them.

      Thank you.

      0. Association with kalyana mitta; website, listening desanas and appropriate discussions;

      1. Establishing feedback loop of right view → right mindfulness → right effort

      2. Celibacy (I am not married and I don’t think I will marry.I occasionally get thoughts of enjoying this pleasures. But, I have seen shortcomings and don’t proceed with it.)

      3. Formal Meditation after becoming sotappana (samatha → VIPASSANĀ)

      4. Abstain or limit entertainment; music, movies, shows etc; especially ones who make us feel we can keep things to our liking. Which says you only live once, in short abstaining from entertainment which are spreading false beliefs about life. (Which includes most of entertainment.)

      5. Generosity (not in itself sufficient, but is conductive for nibbana.) (donations, volunteering, helping people in bad conditions, spreading dhamma)

      6. Avoiding social media.
      Some people might find this not right. But, hear me out. Social media creates feeling of lack inside yourself. You see everyone having “great” life. which means your whole attention is hijacked by perception of beauty and giving attention to perception of beauty, Arising and increasing of desire to enjoy sensual pleasures emerges. One who is intoxicated with sensual pleasures cannot properly understand dhamma. First HINDRANCE.

      What else do you do or can do as LAY DHAMMA FOLLOWER to MAXIMIZE your chance of becoming anagami?

      __________

      Edit: about celibacy where i say I have seen shortcomings of this “pleasure”. I mean that I have pondered over shortcomings of acquiring and maintaining sensual pleasure, I have not yet achieved totally breakthrough to be completely free of it, but, sometimes thoughts of it still comes in mind.

      Edit 2: added 6th point.

    • #36511
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Hi,

      First of all, it is great to hear that someone at your age to be interested in achieving such goals.

      But I am not sure what your background is. let me ask you a few questions first.

      1. How much exposure have you had to Buddha Dhamma?
      2. Why are you interested in getting to the Anagami stage? Are you already a Sotapanna?
      2. What do you understand to be a Sotapanna and an Anagami?

      Brief descriptions would be fine.

    • #36512
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      1. your website, have tried to understand some suttas, have heard almost all desanas of wharkara thero.

      2. I had partial insight into tilakkhana, insight that “no actions in this world can give satisfaction to my liking” is present in me. I have heard desanas. have pondered over true meanings of tilakkhana. so, yeah I think it is highly likely that i have achieved stream entry. main reason that I want to achieve anāgāmi stage because, I want to get rid of coarse suffering that exists in human realm. (I know with book knowledge that all are filled with suffering of either change or of fabrication, but, at least realms above humans have much less suffering and are suitable for pondering dhamma and also long age.)

      3. sotappana has only gotten rid of wrong views and anagami has gotten rid of kama raga and patigha additionally, hence not subject to being born in any kamma loka in addition to apaya.

      what other practices I am doing?
      meditating on death, shortcoming of sensual pleasures, foulness,, reflecting on anicca nature of all objects of this world

      edit: grammar and minor edit.

    • #36515
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Very good. So, you don’t have the 10 types of miccha ditthi AND you understand that as long as we attach to worldly things future suffering will not stop.

      A Sotapanna has just seen the truth of the above statement. That “Samma Ditthi” is enough for the mind from engaging in apayagami deeds. That DOES NOT require any thinking and happens AUTOMATICALLY (if one is indeed a Sotapanna or even a Sotapanna Anugami).

      The next step is to stop the suffering that is associated with the higher realms in kama loka: the human realm and Deva realms.
      – That also happens in two steps: A Sakadagami will not be born with a human body and an Anagami would not be born a Deva either.

      Of course, you probably know all that. But I think the next step is to get to the Sakadagami stage, and then to the Anagami stage.

      Both involve Anapana and Satipatthana Bhavana. of course, those have nothing to do with “breath meditation.”
      – Once “ditthi vipallasa” is removed (at the Sotapanna stage), the next step is to remove “sanna vipallasa” by engaging in Bhavana.
      – Basically, that involves contemplating the drawbacks (adinava) of sensual pleasures, EVEN IF such pleasure activities do not involve hurting others.
      – Another way to say that is to see the “anicca nature” of such activities. Even if they may provide temporary pleasures, they will keep one bound to the kama loka.
      – As long as one is in kama loka, the suffering associated with physical bodies (injuries, cancers and other diseases, old age, etc) will be inevitable.

      The following posts could be helpful:
      Vipallāsa (Diṭṭhi, Saññā, Citta) Affect Saṅkhāra

      What is “Kāma”? It is not Just Sex

      Mahā Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta

    • #36527
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      Lal. thanks for quick reply.

      so basically, you recommend,

      – four NOBLE RIGHT efforts
      – contemplations of drawbacks of sensual pleasures

      also, further question for you, Lal.

      what is minimum amount of dhamma topics one needs to know in order to steadily keep progressing on lokottara path? (Is knowing basics of tillakhana, eighfold path, four truth, paticca samuppada (with basic details) enough?)

      AND also, you have mentioned that stream enterer has seen how to reach the nibbana, right?
      what do you mean here?

    • #36528
      Lal
      Keymaster

      “what is minimum amount of dhamma topics one needs to know in order to steadily keep progressing on lokottara path? (Is knowing basics of tillakhana, eighfold path, four truth, paticca samuppada (with basic details) enough?)”

      Yes.

      “AND also, you have mentioned that stream enterer has seen how to reach the nibbana, right?
      what do you mean here?”

      One who has Samma Ditthi has also “seen” the path to Nibbana.
      – It is just that it is hard to get rid of “sanna vipallasa”.
      – That means you understand how to get there. But one’s habits (gati) are pulling one toward sensory pleasures.

      It is like an alcoholic who has “seen” the dangers of continued drinking but has a hard time avoiding another drink.
      – So he needs to constantly keep thinking about the “adinava” of having “another drink” when the urge comes.

      You need to read those posts carefully. It is mostly there.

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