[silasampanno]

Hi, all.

I have two questions while reading a post.

1. However, vacī saṅkhāra are defined as “vitakka vicārā vacī saṅkhāra.” which means “vacī saṅkhāra are vitakka and vicārā.” (Correct Meaning of Vacī Sankhāra #1)

As the above sentence indicates that “vacī saṅkhāra are vitakka and vicārā.”

And the recently revised post ‘Power of the Human Mind – Ariya Jhānā #8′ explains

“Only vitakka and vicāra are reduced at the first Ariya jhāna and completely eliminated at higher jhānās.”

I can deduce from the above two sentences as follows.

“Vaci sankhara is reduced at the first Ariya jhana and completely stopped at higher Ariya jhanas.”

Q.1) I think this higher Ariya jhanic state is simliar to “yadidam sabbasankhārasamatho”. Is my reasoning correct?

 

2. I will quote two sentences from “Power of the Human Mind – Ariya Jhānā” post.

#7  One can engage in insight (Vipassanā) meditation and convert that “mundane jhāna” into an “Ariya jhāna.”

#5 Thus, vitakka, vicāra for Anariya samatha meditation becomes savitakka, savicara, emphasizing the focus on Nibbāna, with the prefix “sa”.

If you diagram the two sentences, it’s as follows.

Anariya jhana –> savitakka, savicara/Vipassna –> Ariya jhana

Q.2) Are savitakka/savicara and Vipassna synonymous?

 

With metta _()_

• This topic was modified 1 week ago by silasampanno.
• This topic was modified 1 week ago by silasampanno.
• This topic was modified 1 week ago by Lal.

[Lal]

1. Vitakka and vicāra indicate “bad thoughts” or defiled thoughts.

• On the other hand, savitakka and savicāra indicate “good and wholesome thoughts.” 
• Therefore, vitakka and vicāra always lead to a “stressful mind” and bad vipāka in the future.
• In the same way, savitakka and savicāra always lead to a “calm and stress-free mind” and good vipāka in the future.

2. I can see that both links you mentioned need some revision. I will revise them and discuss those points, hopefully later today.

[silasampanno]

That sounds good. 
 I salute you for your efforts.

 

Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu !

[Lal]

I have revised the two posts: “Correct Meaning of Vacī Sankhāra” and “Power of the Human Mind – Ariya Jhānā.”

• The statements that you quoted have been revised.
• Please feel free to ask questions.

[silasampanno]

Thanks Lal.

I will read the revised post carefully and ask if I have any questions.

 

Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!

[silasampanno]

• I read the revised post “[Correct Meaning of Vacī Sankhāra]” and this post is very helpful for me. I would like to thank Ven.Lal _()_
• In #49659, I asked “Are savitakka/savicara and Vipassna synonymous?”
• As I read the post, it seems that savitakka/savicara and Vipassna are not synonymous.

The post says,

“A higher version of savitakka and savicāra is represented by “Sammā Saṅkappa.”  While savitakka and savicāra represent “moral thoughts” by any person, “Sammā Saṅkappa” can arise only in a Noble Person.” (Correct Meaning of Vacī Sankhāra #3)

• This part completely resolved my suspicions.

 

• And I think,

1. Vipassana is associated with Samma Ditthi.
2. Vipassana is strengthens Samma Ditthi even more.
3. Savitakka and savicara is based on Samma Ditthi(lokiya or lokuttara).

Is my understanding correct?

With metta _()_

• This reply was modified 1 week ago by silasampanno.
• This reply was modified 1 week ago by silasampanno.

[Lal]

1. Yes. “Savitakka/savicara” refers to moral thinking devoid of immoral thoughts. Thus, for example, anariya yogis may apply savitakka/savicara to cultivate anariya jhana.

• Cultivating Vipassana (insight mediation) requires having Ariya Samma Ditthi, i.e., comprehending the Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana. In other words, they must have realized the unfruitfulness/danger of remaining in the rebirth process.

2. Yes, all your conclusions are correct. Just to emphasize: There are two versions of Samma Ditthi: one mundane and the other lokuttara directed to Nibbana.

2 users thanked author for this post.

silasampanno, Gad

[Author]

Posts