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    • #34051
      TripleGemStudent
      Participant

      Just wondering can this translation be improved upon?

      Ālayarāmā kho panāyaṁ pajā ālayaratā ālayasammuditā. Ālayarāmāya kho pana pajāya ālayaratāya ālayasammuditāya duddasaṁ idaṁ ṭhānaṁ yadidaṁ idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppādo

      “But this is a creation delighting in sensual pleasure, delighted by sensual pleasure, rejoicing in sensual pleasure. So that for a creation delighting in sensual pleasure, delighted by sensual pleasure, rejoicing in sensual pleasure, this were a matter difficult to see, cause.”

      – I’m most interested in the “but this is a creation” part.

      Thank you in advance.

    • #34052
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Which sutta it is from?

    • #34056
      TripleGemStudent
      Participant

      It’s from Mahakhandhaka

      https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-kd1/pli/ms

      Section:

      5. Brahmayacanakatha

      Second paragraph.

      Thank you Lal

    • #34057
      me1
      Participant

      That english translation you quoted is from 1951. There is a more recent Bhikkhu Brahmali translation on that same SuttaCentral that seems adequate.

      Thanissaro Bhikkhu also has an english translation on dhammatalks

      I generally prefer his english translations to the ones available on SuttaCentral.

    • #34058
      TripleGemStudent
      Participant

      Thank you me1 for the Thanissaro Bhikkhu English translation. The part I’m wondering if the English translation can be improved upon is:

      “ālayarāmā kho panāyaṁ pajā ālayaratā ālayasammuditā”

      (Bhikkhu Brahmali)
      “But this is a creation delighting in sensual pleasure, delighted by sensual pleasure, rejoicing in sensual pleasure.”

      (Thanissaro Bhikkhu)
      “But this generation delights in attachment, is excited by attachment, enjoys attachment.”

    • #34063
      Lal
      Keymaster

      That section of the Vinaya Pitaka is an account of the timeline just after the Buddha attained the Buddhahood.

      The meaning becomes very clear in the context. The Buddha realized that it is going to be VERY difficult to explain to the humans, Devas, and Brahmas the perils of attachment to sensual pleasures.

      All living-beings are blinded by attachment to sensual pleasures.”
      – That is the basic meaning of the verse that you quoted.
      – But in word-by-translations, the meaning is not so clear.

      Here is the relevant section:
      “5. Brahmayācanakathā
      Atha kho bhagavā sattāhassa accayena tamhā samādhimhā vuṭṭhahitvā rājāyatanamūlā yena ajapālanigrodho tenupasaṅkami. Tatra sudaṁ bhagavā ajapālanigrodhamūle viharati. Atha kho bhagavato rahogatassa paṭisallīnassa evaṁ cetaso parivitakko udapādi—

      “adhigato kho myāyaṁ dhammo gambhīro duddaso duranubodho santo paṇīto atakkāvacaro nipuṇo paṇḍitavedanīyo. Ālayarāmā kho panāyaṁ pajā ālayaratā ālayasammuditā. Ālayarāmāya kho pana pajāya ālayaratāya ālayasammuditāya duddasaṁ idaṁ ṭhānaṁ yadidaṁ idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppādo; idampi kho ṭhānaṁ sududdasaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ. Ahañceva kho pana dhammaṁ deseyyaṁ, pare ca me na ājāneyyuṁ, so mamassa kilamatho, sā mamassa vihesā”ti.”

      Translation (with my edits of the first part):

      “After seven days, the Buddha came out from that stillness and went from the ape-flower tree to a banyan tree, and he stayed there. Then, while in seclusion, the Buddha thought this:

      “I have discovered this profound truth, so hard to see, so hard to comprehend. It’s peaceful and sublime, subtle, beyond the intellect, and knowable only to the wise. For living-beings who delight in sensual pleasures, find pleasure in them, rejoice in holding on to them, will find it hard to comprehend this deep Dhamma..”

      I have skipped some unnecessary words and have translated only the meaning of the first part of the verse.

    • #34069
      TripleGemStudent
      Participant

      Thank you very much Lal, much appreciated it.

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