Tirokudda Sutta

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    • #35015
      DanielSt
      Participant

      Dear Lal and friends,
      I have a question concerning the Tirokudda Sutta:

      https://suttacentral.net/kp7/en/sujato

      You write in this article in #4:

      Hidden World of the Gandhabba: Netherworld (Paralōka)

      “Gandhabba is described in detail the Tirokudda Sutta in the Khuddaka Nikāya, where it is called “tirokudda” or “tirokuddaya“, instead of gandhabba.”

      It helps me to do get an idea about Gandhabba, or to get an idea of Gandhabba and Peta both and matching these also with other reports I hear.

      In the Sutta, it never really speaks about Tirokudda but about Petā.

      I see Tirokudda only appearing once in the Pali, but Petā many times. But my understandingn of Pali and the context is not that strong.

      Is the Sutta only speaking about Gandhabba or also about Peta realm? To me, it should speak about both. If it is not spesking about Peta realm at all, I cannot see how to make sense of that from my knowledge and understanding.

      Do you know any good stories about Peta realm as opposed to Gandhabba?

      Best wishes,
      Daniel

      • This topic was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by DanielSt.
    • #35030
      Lal
      Keymaster

      That was an old post and I just revised it.

      Thanks to DanielSt for bringing it up.
      – Please read the post and ask any unanswered questions.

      Revised post: “Hidden World of the Gandhabba: Netherworld (Paralōka)

    • #35031
      DanielSt
      Participant

      Thank you, Lal. A good and clear post.

      One follow-up question:
      A bhava in hell does not start with Gandhabba, but always with a birth moment in a hell body? Between two hell bodies, there is no time overlap?
      So, from that point, in my view, a bhava in hell could also start in Gandhabba (Hell Gandhaba so to say) and there will be a Gandhabba transmigrating in hell, too, taking “possesion” of a new body or something like that. The body would be manufactured, like in a factory, or so I imagine.

      PS. I wanted to write another post on the topic of Ven. Ledi Sayadaw, but it seems that the topic is closed. Maybe I could write you a message and you could consider if it is worthy to post?

      • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by DanielSt.
    • #35036
      Lal
      Keymaster

      All types of bhava start with a hadaya vatthu and a set of pasada rupa.
      – That set can be called “manomaya kaya.” So, any living being has a manomaya kaya.

      Brahmas and Devas are born with that manomaya kaya AND a “physical body.” They live their whole lives in that state. Those “physical bodies” of Brahmas and Devas are, of course, at a much less density compared to “human bodies.”

      Humans and animals are born only with the manomaya kaya at the patisandhi moment. They start making “physical bodies” after getting into a womb.
      – However, such manomaya kaya can become a bit dense due to inhaling the aroma of plants, flowers, etc. Thus the name gandhabba (gandha + abba).

      The other 3 realms in the apayas can be complex. For example, a hell-being is said to born with a full physical body. They get “killed” often due to torture, but are reborn instantaneously until that kammic energy is exhausted.

      You wrote: ” I wanted to write another post on the topic of Ven. Ledi Sayadaw, but it seems that the topic is closed.”
      – Which three is that? If you post the link I can re-open it.

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