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Hello everybody,
This is a transcription of a Dhamma sermon delivered by Venerable Deegoda Dhammadassi, explaining key teachings such as Uppatti Paṭiccasamuppāda, Gandhabba, the Four Bodies, Patisandhi-viññāṇa, Cittaviṭṭhi, Vipariṇāma, Saṅkhārā, Anicca, and Asmi Mana. The text has been edited for better readability, and some illustrations have been added.
Some of the questions that were sent:
“I have heard that the term Patisandhi refers to the creation of a new Hadaya-vatthu at some point. Therefore, I thought that viññāṇa in Uppatti Paṭiccasamuppāda is the Patisandhi-viññāṇa, which also signifies the appearance of a new Bhava. I am curious whether the Patisandhi viññāṇa state in Uppatti Paṭiccasamuppāda can be considered the appearance of a new Gandhabba.”
“Saṅkhārā is clearly understood as belonging to the mind. The five aggregates—Rūpa, Vedanā, Saññā, Saṅkhārā, and Viññāṇa—include Saṅkhārā as a mental factor. However, I find it difficult to understand how the physical movement of going to get water is defined as Kāya Saṅkhārā. It’s challenging to see how muscle movements can be considered part of the mind. The action of going to get water is generally seen as a result of mental intention. Does this mean Kāya Saṅkhārā = mind? If so, does Kāya Saṅkhārā ≠ physical movement (even though it results from the mind)? Similarly, in the case of verbal expressions, Vacī Saṅkhāra seems to function in the same way. Based on last Thursday’s sermon and the WhatsApp text you shared, I understand your teaching, but I would like more clarity on this specific part.
In the past, I understood Saṅkhāra (which refers to intention) as something more aligned with a purely mental concept. Is that understanding correct?”
Here’s the transcription: Google drive
(The quality appears to be low when reading; it’s best to download the PDF or use Dropbox)
And here’s the video: YouTube
Feel free to check it out and share any thoughts!
You can join the discussion Here
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“Saṅkhārā is clearly understood as belonging to the mind. The five aggregates—Rūpa, Vedanā, Saññā, Saṅkhārā, and Viññāṇa—include Saṅkhārā as a mental factor. However, I find it difficult to understand how the physical movement of going to get water is defined as Kāya Saṅkhārā. It’s challenging to see how muscle movements can be considered part of the mind. The action of going to get water is generally seen as a result of mental intention. Does this mean Kāya Saṅkhārā = mind? If so, does Kāya Saṅkhārā ≠ physical movement (even though it results from the mind)? Similarly, in the case of verbal expressions, Vacī Saṅkhāra seems to function in the same way.
In the past, I understood Saṅkhāra (which refers to intention) as something more aligned with a purely mental concept. Is that understanding correct?”
Hello Amin,
What you said and the question you brought forth, from my own past experience / contemplation and view can actually be quite complicated to answer. About a year ago, I also had and still do today have a similar line of thinking and question as you have in regards to sankhara being a purely mental concept or not.The reason why I said your question / line of thinking about sankhara can actually be quite complicated to answer is because I can add more layers to your (our) question / line of thinking. For myself, I had to step away from seeking a satisfactory answer to our similar question because it got so complicated in trying to fully address the question / line of thinking. I felt when one layer of the question gets answered; it seems like another layer of questions would open up where it needs to be addressed to gain a more complete / satisfactory answer.
To give you a short example of the complexity in trying to fully answer our question about sankharas being a purely mental concept or not especially when it comes to kaya sankhara. In one of the sutta’s, it defines kaya sankhara as assasa passasa and pretty much all the translations / interpretations I have come across equates kaya sankhara to the process of breathing in and breathing out. To me if someone answers that all sankharas (mano, vaci, kaya) is purely a mental concept, then how would the translation / interpretation of kaya sankhara being tied to breathing resolve this discrepancy? If someone answers that sankharas are not purely mental, I feel an explanation would be difficult to provide in fully addressing the example you given as to why you believe the 3 sankhara’s (mano, vaci, kaya) all results from the mind or a purely mental concept. Like I said, I also have the similar line of thinking (which could possibly be wrong / incorrect / mistaken) in regard to sankhara “possibly” being a purely mental concept.
If you come across or are provided any answers / explanations to your question outside of this forum, please do share it here since I’m also interested in any answers or explanation to your question. If you’re not able to receive any satisfactory answers or explanations to your question and since this what I have to do for the time being, one can always fall back to the common interpretation / translation of sankhara being where it might not be a purely a mental concept. Like I mentioned earlier, one of the strongest case to be made where sankhara might not be a all mental concept is from the commonly and widely accepted translation / interpretation in the sutta’s where it mentions kaya sankhara being tied to breathing. From the Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44):
“How many processes are there?”
“There are these three processes. Physical, verbal, and mental processes.”
“But ma’am, what is the physical process? What’s the verbal process? What’s the mental process?”
“Kasmā panāyye, assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro
“Breathing is a physical process. Placing the mind and keeping it connected are verbal processes. Perception and feeling are mental processes.”
“But ma’am, why is breathing a physical process?
“Assāsapassāsā kho, āvuso visākha, kāyikā ete dhammā kāyappaṭibaddhā, tasmā assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro.
“Breathing is physical. It’s tied up with the body, that’s why breathing is a physical process.
Like I mentioned where we believe / think that sankhara might be a purely a mental concept, it’s possible that our line of thinking might be wrong / incorrect or that we’re missing something. But as of this time, to me it’s still not very clear if sankhara is purely a mental concept or not. Since currently I’m still not fully satisfied with the translation / interpretation of kaya sankhara being a “fully physical concept” getting the idea from being tied to breathing as a physical process and unsure of the answer to our similar question / line of thinking, I’m just keeping my mind open about the possibility of being wrong or correct in my thinking.
I’m not sure if the Youtube channel you linked in your post is your Youtube channel or another but seeing some of the video’s in Korean, I would like to say much merits to you or the person whom created the Korean videos and give the teachings. As far as I know, the Buddha teachings we learn from (ex. Puredhamma, Authentic Dhamma and others similar), there isn’t any or much materials on the teachings in Korean and Japanese. Much merits to the person whom give the teachings in Korean and started the channel. Saddhu saddhu saddhu.
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1. All five components of pañcupādānakkhandha (pañca upādānakkhandha, i.e., rupa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa) are mental entities, i.e., they arise in the mind.
- In the recent post “Etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti – Connection to Taṇhā, Māna, Diṭṭhi,” I presented evidence that “rupa” in the suttās refers to “rupa upadanakkhandha” and is mental.
2. Similarly, “saṅkhāra” in the suttās always refers to “abhisaṅkhāra” with “sañcetanā.” As we know, “sañ” refers to defilements or “rāga, dosa, moha.”
3. (Abhi)saṅkhāra can also be categorized as kāya saṅkhāra, vacī saṅkhāra, and citta saṅkhāra. They are all done with “sañcetanā.”
- Yes. The “Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44)” explains them as “Assāsapassāsā kho, āvuso visākha, kāyasaṅkhāro, vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro, saññā ca vedanā ca cittasaṅkhāro”ti.” The English translation in the link translates the first part as “Breathing is a physical process,” implying that Assāsapassāsā means “breathing in and out.”
- Of course, breathing is also controlled by the mind, but it does not involve “sañcetanā.” P.S. Therefore, Assāsapassāsā cannot possibly mean “breathing in and out.” That translation is wrong.
- In some older posts, I also may have referred to kāya saṅkhāra incorrectly. I realized that error within the past couple of years (there may be posts that require revision). I haven’t had time to look for and correct such possible errors in old posts.
4. Kāya saṅkhāra refers to sankappa (subtle version of “abhisaṅkhāra“) that are automatically generated in the “purāna kamma” stage; see “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- I have not explicitly discussed the fact that kāya saṅkhāra refers to sankappa. I will explain that when I start rewriting the posts on Satipaṭṭhāna.
- Until then, I can only state the meaning of “Assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” as “one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.” Thus, “Assāsapassāsā” is not a definition of kāya saṅkhāra. It merely states that to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.
- Here, “Assāsapassāsa” has the same meaning as “jānato passato.” See “Jānato Passato” and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.”
5. Buddha’s teachings are much deeper and profound than most people realize. I realized this only within the past couple of years.
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Much thanks for the valuable feedback and teachings provided for all of us to consider / think / contemplate about / on and potentially helping us all to gain a better understanding of the Buddha teachings.
It was mentioned that:
“3. (Abhi)saṅkhāra can also be categorized as kāya saṅkhāra, vacī saṅkhāra, and citta saṅkhāra. They are all done with “sañcetanā.”
A reference from the Paṭiccasamuppādavibhaṅga I came across in the past where I believe where it may support the teaching that Abhisankhara can also be categorized as the 3 sankhara’s and being all the 3 sankhara’s can be done with sañcetanā.Tattha katamo kāyasaṅkhāro? Kāyasañcetanā kāyasaṅkhāro, vacīsañcetanā vacīsaṅkhāro, manosañcetanā cittasaṅkhāro. Ime vuccanti “avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā”.
Herein, what is a (volitional) process expressed by way of the body?
(There is) an intention expressed by way of the body, a (volitional) process expressed by way of the body. (There is) an intention expressed by way of speech, a (volitional) process expressed by way of speech. (There is) an intention expressed by way of the mind, a (volitional) process expressed by way of the mind.This is said to be ‘with ignorance as condition there are (volitional) processes’
——————————————-I have a question and seek clarification on where it was mentioned;- Yes. The “Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44)” explains them as “Assāsapassāsā kho, āvuso visākha, kāyasaṅkhāro, vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro, saññā ca vedanā ca cittasaṅkhāro”ti.” The English translation in the link translates the first part as “Breathing is a physical process,” implying that Assāsapassāsā means “breathing in and out.”
- Of course, breathing is also controlled by the mind, but it does not involve “sañcetanā.”
Do you agree with the implied meaning from Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44) that assāsapassāsā means breathing in and out or is your line of thinking on assāsapassāsā from Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44) means what was said later on in the previous post that; “Assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” as “one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.” Thus, “Assāsapassāsā” is not a definition of kāya saṅkhāra. It merely states that to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.”? Or what exactly is your take on the meaning of assāsapassāsā from the Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44) where it’s implied with the meaning of breathing in and out? -
You asked: “Do you agree with the implied meaning from Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44) that assāsapassāsā means breathing in and out?”
No. I don’t agree. I suppose I didn’t make it clear enough. So, I have revised my comment above to add the following (please see my comment above):
“P.S. Therefore, Assāsapassāsā cannot possibly mean “breathing in and out.” That translation is wrong.”
- The correct meaning is explained in #4 of my comment.
- As we have discussed many times, a word can have different meanings depending on the context. That holds not only for Pāli, but also for English and most languages. See, for example, “Pāli Dictionaries – Are They Reliable?“
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I think it is a good idea to emphasize the following.
- “Kamma” in Buddha’s teachings does not refer to all actions.
- Only those actions, speech, and thoughts involving rāga, dosa, and moha are “kamma.”
- Thus, the goal (“kamma nirodha“) does not refer to stopping all actions, speech, and thoughts, but only those involving rāga, dosa, or moha.
- The Buddha lived for 45 years after attaining Buddhahood and engaged in countless actions, speech, and thoughts.
- Additionally, “kamma nirodha” is equivalent to “saṅkhāra nirodha.” Still, as we have discussed, saṅkhāra refers to abhisaṅkhāra performed with sañcetanā, or “defiled cetanā” or “defiled intentions” (characterized by rāga, dosa, or moha).
- This is a crucial yet simple point to remember. That is why “breathing in and out” cannot be a type of abhisaṅkhāra.
- Please feel free to ask questions, because this is a critical point. Also see “Kamma are Done with Abhisaṅkhāra – Types of Abhisaṅkhāra.”
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Hello,
The two questions above were answered by Venerable Thero. The answers can be found in the video or the transcript. For Sankhara, please check page 27.
I made a simple illustration of Sankhara based on that video.
Here’s the illustration: Sankhara
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1. I listened to about 20 minutes from that point. The Thero is saying the following:
- Just breathing in and out is only saṅkhāra, not abhisaṅkhāra.
- One needs to breathe to move body parts (He quotes a Waharaka Thero‘s discourse on this, and I have also listened to it).
- If one moves body parts with sañcetanā, or “defiled cetanā” or “defiled intentions,” then those involve abhisankhara.
2. All of those are correct.
- That is precisely what I am saying, too.
- Moving the body requires breathing. If you move your body to steal or kill someone, that involves abhisaṅkhāra, not pure saṅkhāra (without raga, dosa, moha)
3. The problem is the following: The Buddha always referred to abhisaṅkhāra. In the suttas, the word saṅkhāra almost always refers to abhisaṅkhāra. There is no point discussing pure saṅkhāra in the suttas, because kamma generation involves raga, dosa, and moha.
- Pure saṅkhāra (without raga, dosa, moha) are generated by Arahants, too. There is no point talking about pure saṅkhāra in the suttas.
- The suttas discuss only those saṅkhāra involving sañcetanā, i.e., abhisaṅkhāra.
4. Conclusion: Assāsapassāsā in “Assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” (discussed in the Cūḷavedalla Sutta) cannot be “breathing in and out.”
- “Breathing in and out” is due to pure saṅkhāra.
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If any of the above is incorrect, you (or the Thero) should respond to each incorrect point. I don’t have the time to read other documents or watch more videos.
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The reason why I asked Lal what was his take on the implied meaning of assāsapassāsā as breathing in and out for kaya sankhara in the Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44) was because it wasn’t immediate clear to me at that time and thought possibly the implied meaning of breathing in and out for assāsapassāsa was taken. But after seeing the comment of “4. Conclusion: Assāsapassāsā in “Assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” (discussed in the Cūḷavedalla Sutta) cannot be “breathing in and out.”, it’s clear to me now, thank you.
I would like to share it’s also my take / believe the mentioned implied meaning of breathing in and out for assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” as discussed in the Cūḷavedalla Sutta cannot be about breathing in and out. Around a year ago, I had thoughts of investigating into this very matter to see what can be done to prove / demonstrate where assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” discussed in the Cūḷavedalla Sutta isn’t about breathing, but something else which I couldn’t say for sure. For the contemplation / investigation process, whatever interpretation / line of thinking / understanding I might come up for kāyasaṅkhāro would have to be consistent with my understanding of or assist with the practice of satipatthana, specifically when it comes to kāye kāyānupassī viharati. I thought if we can understand more about kāyasaṅkhāro, it may open up new / more possibilities of understanding about Satipatthana especially when it comes to the kāye kāyānupassī viharati passage.
“As we have discussed many times, a word can have different meanings depending on the context. That holds not only for Pāli, but also for English and most languages”.
At one time in the past even though learning / knowing a word can have different meanings, I had thoughts of where assāsapassāsā mentioned as one of the definitions for vayo dhatu and the every use of assāsapassāsā in the sutta’s wouldn’t have the meaning of breathing in and out at all. But later came to see the thinking / line of thinking was possibly errored / wrong / incorrect. There seems to be more obvious examples found in the sutta’s where assāsapassāsā does mean or represent breathing in and out or respiration, but the same can also be said about where assāsapassāsā mean something else in the sutta’s other than breathing in and out or about respiration. So it seems like after all assāsapassāsā depending on the context could possibly have the meaning of breathing in and out or about respiration. Unfortunately it’s no easy task for myself anyways to see or be clear on the different implied meanings being used for assāsapassāsā in the sutta’s.
It was mentioned:
“This is a crucial yet simple point to remember. That is why “breathing in and out” cannot be a type of abhisaṅkhāra.”
“How does raga, dosa, or moha arise when breathing in and out?”
#1. I can see the case to be made where breathing doesn’t involve sañcetanā or abhisaṅkhāra like when one breathes naturally without intended effort or focus on doing so, but I can think of an example where it might demonstrate depending on one’s intention with their breathing can involve sañcetanā or abhisaṅkhāra. The example being where breath meditation is practiced for any other purpose than for nibbana or to continue to live. Like where / when there’s intention behind the focusing on or manipulating the breath for the practice / attainment of jhana’s or other some attainments besides nibbana. Another example I can think of is where one intently with the 3 unwholesome roots start a fire and use their breathing to blow on the flame making the fire bigger and stronger to do more harm or damage to the environment or other living beings. Would these cases where breathing is involved with sañcetanā or abhisaṅkhāra?
#2. Something I would like clarified / feedback; “One needs to breathe to move body parts (He quotes a Waharaka Thero‘s discourse on this, and I have also listened to it).”
I understand that I definitely won’t be able to move my body if I don’t breath for some time, but can’t one still move their body while not breathing even though only for a short period of time? For example some people can run for about 30 secs while holding on their breath.
#3. “It merely states that to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage”.
The comprehension on how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage, would that be similar to comprehend how PUK arises and how it can be ceased, like samudaya and nirodha? My understanding / thinking is that sankappa arises due the living beings gati / asava’s / anusaya’s, samyojana’s coming into contact with mind made rupa and taken Etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti – Connection to Taṇhā, Māna, Diṭṭhi
But the PUK mind process for the satta can be ceased / eliminated. I can think of that sankappa arises in the purāna and nava kamma kamma stage can be said as samudaya. Stopping or eliminating the sankappa from arising in the purāna and nava kamma stage would be nirodha.Hello Amin,
Thank you for sharing the answers you came across and for the Thero’s desana. I didn’t know of the 6 types sankhara’s (3 being without raga, dosa, moha and 3 with) referenced from paticca samuppada vibhanga mentioned by the Thero around the beginning of time stamp, thank you and the Thero for helping me learn of.
In regards to the Thero’s description of assāsapassāsā for kāyasaṅkhāra. From the parts of video I watched, my interpretation of what the Thero is saying / teaching on assāsapassāsā relating to kāyasaṅkhāra is a description of oppositely working muscle system. Some or similar words I thought to have heard in the video, “In our body for every action is created or manipulated by 2 muscles that have opposing actions”. An example of the elbow joint was used, like the bicep triceps contracts and expands. Also the mention of the correlation between expansion and contraction and breathing in and out. I believe a teaching from Abhaya thero on kammaja vayo dhatu was provided? from the Thero to show / demonstrate how vayo element helps with the movement of the body which could possibly be related to assāsapassāsā.
Within the transcription in the OP: “It’s called Kāya Saṅkhāra because, yes, the mind is the underlying factor—the main controlling unit—but through that processing and compiling, or through that Saṅkhāra, you see a change in your body. That’s why Assāsa and Passāsa are called Kāya Saṅkhāra. To open your mouth, you relax one set of muscles and contract another; to close it, the opposite happens. That’s how the body works—with pairs of opposing muscles acting in contrary ways during operation or processing. So, that’s Kāya Saṅkhāra”.
Maybe I’m totally wrong or mistaken but I feel the interpretations / teachings that I come across or from my own thinking and understanding on kāyasaṅkhāro would have to be consistent with my understanding of or assist with the practice of satipatthana specifically relating to kāye kāyānupassī viharati. Currently I’m not sure, able to see / relate how I can apply the teaching / description / explanation of assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāra as an oppositely working muscle system to the practice of satipatthana, specifically to kāye kāyānupassī viharati. I also have a hard time believing or taking kāyasaṅkhāra especially when it comes to the Buddha teaching to be some form of oppositely working muscle system or relating to joints and muscles. Amin I would like to ask you, do yourself believe assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāra to be about an opposite working muscle system? I don’t believe or take the Thero and others teaching / explanation on kāyasaṅkhāra assāsapassāsā to be completely incorrect / wrong, but for myself I just feel there is more meaning behind or another explanation on the relationship between assāsapassāsā and kāyasaṅkhāra than as a breathing process or muscle joint contraction expansion system. But like I said, I could be wrong / mistaken in the first place about the interpretation / definition of kāyasaṅkhāra having any relationship / connection / association to the practice of satipatthana or kāye kāyānupassī viharati.
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On May 29, 2025, at 5:34 pm (above), I wrote the following:
4. Kāya saṅkhāra refers to sankappa (subtle version of “abhisaṅkhāra“) that are automatically generated in the “purāna kamma” stage; see “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- I have not explicitly discussed the fact that kāya saṅkhāra refers to sankappa. I will explain that when I start rewriting the posts on Satipaṭṭhāna.
- Until then, I can only state the meaning of “Assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” as “one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.” Thus, “Assāsapassāsā” is not a definition of kāya saṅkhāra. It merely states that to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.
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In the coming weeks, I will start a series of posts on Satipaṭṭhāna. I am still setting up the necessary background, and I am almost finished with that.
- There, I will explain the above in detail.
- It will take a few posts to explain that.
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