The Arising of Asava in Paticca Samupadda?

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    • #25792

      Hi All,

      The sutta’s teach there are 3 asava’s: kamaasava, bhavasava and avijjasava. Abhidamma also lists ditthasava. If i am not mistaken Lal translates those asava’s as ‘deep seated craving’. Bodhi writes they are refered to as the deepest level of defilement, as it were the base of all defilement.

      The source and origin of asava is avijja, the sutta’s teach. At the same time avijja conditions the arising of asava. So, there seems to be a mutual dependency.

      I was wondering, looking at Paticca Samuppada (PS) where do the asava arise?
      Directly after the first factor avijja? In that case asava would be the same as the factor sankhara. Or do they arise directly are after contact? Or after vedana?
      Are they in fact the same as tanha? (kama tanha, bhava tanha, vibhava tanha).

      So, my question is in fact; where in PS do asava arise?

      Asava are very important because they bring renewel of being and are cause suffering.
      An arahant has destroyed asava’s by wisdom.

      kind regards,

    • #25793

      Siebe asked, “So, my question is in fact; where in PS do asava arise?”

      Asava is closely associated with gati. “The Law of Attraction, Habits, Character (Gati), and Cravings (Asavas)

      When an attractive (or repulsive) arammana (thought object) is encountered, one starts thinking about how to enjoy it more (or how to get rid of it) PURELY based on that vedana (like/dislike).
      – Those thoughts are sankhara. One may think about doing akusala kamma to enjoy that arammana more. That is when one starts acting with avijja, “avijja paccaya sankhara.”

      On the other hand, if one did not have such deeply-embedded cravings (defilements), then one would not do such akusala kamma.
      – That is the same as saying not having “bad gati.”

      One gets rid of such asava or gati by learning Buddha Dhamma, and realizng the bad conseuqences of doing akusala kamma.

      Another point to note is that one does not arbitrarily start doing akusala kamma with “avijja paccaya sankhara
      – An attractive (or repulsive) arammana must be there to “trigger those asava or gati“.
      – Therefore, the whole process of “acting with avijja” (or “generating sankhara with avijja“) really starts at the “tanha paccaya upadana” step in PS.
      – That is what I discussed in the last post or two in recent posts. See, #6, #7 in the recent post, “Vacī Saṅkhāra – Saṅkappa (Conscious Thoughts) and Vācā (Speech)
      – I will discuss this more in the upcoming posts.

    • #38305

      It seems to me the best explanation of arising of asava is following.

      when this is, that is.
      when this isn’t, that is not.

      when avijja is, asava is;
      when avijja is not, asava is not;

      we know asava comes out in presence of strong arammana.

      but we have asava because of ignorance of four noble truths AND tilakkhana.
      we think this sankhata for which we have asava are delighting and worth having.
      why? because, lack of understanding of their true nature.

      our existence as lifestream is due to ignorance.
      so, lack of panna is cause for sansara.
      with panna, sansara is stopped for that lifestream.

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