State of Mind in the Absence of Citta Vithi – Bhavanga

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    • #18543
      sybe07
      Spectator

      This refers to the post: https://puredhamma.net/abhidhamma/essential-abhidhamma-the-basics/state-of-mind-in-absence-of-citta-vithi/

      Interesting post again Lal, thanks.

      I would like to share some personal experiences which relate to the following part of the above post:

      13. “The eighth citta in the citta vithi is called a “vottapana citta“. This is a very important citta, where one’s mind decides to take action based on the sense input that it received.
      How to respond to a given sense input is automatically decided by the mind, based on one’s gati (gathi)”.

      It is my personal experience that temporary bhava or Bhavanga (Bt), as a certain state of mind, is also a very important condition in this automatic decision making proces of the mind. Mind clearly decides differently on more or less the same sense-inputs when i am tense, when i am tired, when mind is blown-up or stressed compared to when i am relaxed, at ease, not blown-up, not tired etc.

      Even people which are normally calm will in stressful periods react differently on more or less same sense-inputs. Sleep-quality is also a very important factor. That’s why i think gati is not the only factor in this automatic decision making proces of the mind.

      Kind regards,
      Siebe

    • #19321
      sybe07
      Spectator

      When the mind is without sanna and vedana, in sanna-vedayita-nirodha is mind at that moment in it’s stationary state of natural bhavanga?

      Siebe

    • #19330
      Lal
      Keymaster

      In sanna-vedayita-nirodha, there are no citta vithi or bhavanga.

      See:
      Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti

    • #19331
      sybe07
      Spectator

      Thanks Lal,

      Bhavanga is sometimes translated as lifecontinuum but this seems to me misleading when bhavanga can end.

      In the post you refer to you write: “First, it is important point to remember is that life is maintained by kammic energy, not via citta vithi”.

      I did not realise this. I always thought that life is somehow maintained by this continuum of citta’s from one life to the other.

      Siebe

    • #19332
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Siebe said: ” I always thought that life is somehow maintained by this continuum of citta’s from one life to the other.”

      There are no citta for a being in the asanna realm during that whole lifetime. Life is always maintained by the kammic energy.

    • #19366
      sybe07
      Spectator

      I still find it difficult to grasp the meaning of bhavanga.

      In the above post Lal refers to, it is said:
      -“When in a bhavanga state, there are no citta vithi running, so there are not even universal cētasika present. One just knows that one is living, but there is no thought object (ārammana)”.

      To know that one is living does’t that need citta vitthi’s running?

      I learned bhavanga is also the state in which we are when we are in deep dreamless sleep. Is this correct? At that moment there is not a knowing that one is alive? So i find it hard to graps what bhavanga really means.

      Siebe

    • #19368
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Siebe said: “To know that one is living does’t that need citta vitthi’s running?”

      Do you feel that you are living while you are in deep sleep? An extreme case is when one becomes unconscious.

      Only while awake one can feel one is alive.

      Siebe said: “I learned bhavanga is also the state in which we are when we are in deep dreamless sleep. Is this correct?”

      No. Even in deep sleep there are atiparittarammana citta vithi running for breathing. But those do not have javana citta, and thus one does not feel them. Of course, in between those atiparittarammana citta vithi, mind is in bhavanga.

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