[DanielSt]

Dear Lal, dear friends,

I have the following question:
To me, there are three kinds of “seeing” experiences.
The first kind is the seeing with this physical body.
The second kind is what happens to people in NDE or in some dreams, where they are able to communicate with other ghosts/Gandhabba. Here, I would not call it dream. The conversation with other Gandhabba is real.

The third kind is that of “seeing in a dream” or where the mind takes up some memories and visualizes them. For example dreaming about going out with a friend and having a talk or something. Something, that we would consider only a “craving” due to attachment, like imagining how nice it would be to eat a certain kind of cake.

The first two, according to my understanding, involve pasada rupa in the Gandhabba giving rise to a 5-Door-Process.
The last one is a Mind-Door-Process only? Or is the visualization in a dream a kind of self-induced 5-Door Process?
Related or rephrased question would also be: Could an arupa brahma memorise and visualize things or remember sounds of music once heard?

In my view, it should be “experiencing Dhammas”, and therefore only manodvara citta vithi process. An arupa brahma should therefore still be able to experience these dhammas, in principle.

Thanks for your input.

Daniel

[Lal]

Hello Daniel,

“The last one is a Mind-Door-Process only?”

Yes. The third type is a Mind-Door-Process. It is recalling a memory or namagotta.

“Could an arupa brahma memorise and visualize things or remember sounds of music once heard?”

Yes. All past memories are in the vinnana plane (or vinnana dhatu). Recalling memories requires only the hadaya vatthu. No pasada rupa needed.
– It is not really a “seeing event”, “hearing event”, etc.

[Author]

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