- This topic has 12 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 3 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
The Satta Sūriya Sutta is translated as Seven Suns Sutta in English in Sutta Central. In this sutta, Buddha describes the fate of the Earth about how the heat radiating off the Sun will destroy it. Is he referring to different stages of Sun or different number of Suns?
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
P.S. I love what Buddha says towards the end of this Sutta:
Mendicants, who would ever think or believe that this earth and Sineru, king of mountains, will burn and crumble and be no more, except for one who has seen the truth?
From the perspective of Modern Astronomy, we know this is exactly what will happen to Earth and our solar system billions of years into the future when the Sun becomes a red giant. But for the people back then, there was no confirmation from modern science. So it was quite a significant statement from the Buddha that only the one that has put in the work to discover the truth for themselves can be fully sure about anything.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
1. In other suttas, it is explained that 10,000 world systems (or “star systems” like our Solar system) will be destroyed together with the Solar system. The Pali word for such a “star system” is “cakkavāla.”
2. Such a destruction of a cluster of “star systems” is called a supernova in modern science.
3. Since people were unaware of such details then, the Buddha probably provided that analogy with the appearance of “seven Suns.”
- The point is that either the Sun or one of the 10,000 stars will blow up when our “star cluster” is destroyed in a supernova event in the future.
- The Buddha likely used an analogy of the appearance of seven Suns (one by one) to describe the temperature increase that eventually will lead to the destruction of the 10,000 world systems.
4. This feature of the Buddha’s model has been PROVEN by science. The destruction of a whole cluster of stars (together with their planetary systems) does happen in the universe. Such an event is a supernova. There are a few such supernovae in our Milky Way galaxy each year.
- The “re-formation” of star systems has also been confirmed.
- The periodic destruction and re-formation of Earth are discussed in the “Aggañña Sutta (DN 27),” and I have provided a summary in the post “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).“
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Since people were unaware of such details then, the Buddha probably provided that analogy with the appearance of “seven Suns.”
Or could it be that the Buddha was referring to visible expansions of the nearest stars? From modern science, we know that stars expand over long periods of time, right? And there are stars nearby our solar system that are a lot more massive than our sun. So it would make sense to look like new suns are appearing in the sky as those stars expand and increase in size.
It is interesting because there is a Hindu text which also refers to the seven suns. For example, in the Vishnu Purana: Book VI: Chapter III:
Thus fed, through his intervention, with abundant moisture, the seven solar rays dilate to seven suns 6, whose radiance glows above, below, and on every side, and sets the three worlds and Pátála on fire. The three worlds, consumed by these suns, become rugged and deformed throughout the whole extent of their mountains, rivers, and seas; and the earth, bare of verdure, and destitute of moisture, alone remains, resembling in appearance the back of a tortoise.
The date of composition of this text is disputed but estimated around 400–900 CE. So it is possible that they copied it from Gautam Buddha but I’m not really sure. There were yogis before him that could recall past lives and see the formations and destructions of the world according to suttas.
-
Taryal: “Or could it be that the Buddha was referring to visible expansions of the nearest stars?”
- Yes. It is possible that the Buddha was referring to visible expansions of a nearest star that eventually “blew up” as a supernova.
- The Sun’s mass is too small to become a supernova, but it can become a “red giant,” according to modern science.
______________
Taryal: “It is interesting because there is a Hindu text which also refers to the seven suns…”
- Many concepts in Vedic literature, including karma (for kamma) got into the Vedas from Buddha Kassapa, who was on Earth before Buddha Gotama. I briefly discussed that in #15 and #16 in “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27)“ which I will quote below.
“15. In the Vepullapabbatta Sutta (SN 15.20), the Buddha provides the names of the three Buddhas on this Earth (in this mahā kappa) before him: Kakusandha, Koṇāgama, and Kassapa. He describes how a particular mountain had three different names and heights during those Buddha’s times.
- The point here is that those Buddhas had been on this Earth at times far apart from each other. Considering that the age of the Earth is about 4.5 billion years, it is reasonable to assume that they were about a billion years apart.
- One piece of evidence in the Tipiṭaka for material from previous Buddhas transmitted via Vedic teachings (with superficial meanings) is given in the post, “Arōgyā Paramā Lābhā..” (see #8 there).
16. By the way, the existence of Buddha Kassapa before the Buddha Gōtama helps explain many questions about the connection between Vedic terms and Buddhist terms. Some examples are kamma (karma), Bhikkhu (Bhikshu), paññā (pragnā), jhāna (dhyāna), Nibbāna (Nirvāna), and so on.
- After the end of the Kassapa Buddha Sāsana, his teachings were transmitted as Vedic teachings without deeper meanings. I will need to write some posts just on this issue.
- A good example is the Ānāpāna bhāvanā, which got transmitted as “breath meditation.”
- After re-gaining Buddha Kassapa’s interpretation during our Buddha’s time, the Vedic description has been retaken hold by the current time. The correct version will be fully restored in the coming years. But, of course, it will again disappear to be rediscovered by the Maitreya Buddha in the future.”
On that, also see #8 of “Arogya Parama Labha..” which I quote below:
8. It is interesting to note that this verse was a popular one among the Vedic brahmins of the day of the Buddha. In the Māgandhiya Sutta (MN 75), it is described how Māgandhiya brahmin tells the Buddha that his teacher also taught him the same verse. When the Buddha asked him to explain the meaning that his teacher taught him, Māgandhiya gave the same interpretation that was given in #1 above.
- The Buddha told Māgandhiya that this gāthā (verse) came to the Vedic literature from the previous Buddha (Buddha Kassapa), whose Buddha Sāsana had since disappeared: “Pubbakehesā, māgaṇḍiya, arahantehi sammāsambuddhehi gāthā bhāsitā.“
- (It is important to note that there had been three Buddhas before Buddha Gotama in this mahā kappa, and there will be another, Maithree Buddha, in the future after the present Buddha Sāsana disappears in about 2500 years).
- This is why only “conventional meanings” of pure Dhamma survive when Ariyā (Noble Persons) can correctly interpret the deep meanings in the suttā and verses like this are absent for a long time in this world. Either a Noble Person or a Buddha has to be born to bring back the true meanings.
- This is exactly what has happened during the past hundreds of years, where true meanings of many keywords like anicca, dukkha, anatta, Paṭicca Samuppāda, and Ānāpānasati bhāvanā, have been not known. See, “Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta – Wrong Interpretations“.
I have pointed out more evidence in other posts. The following is from #7 of “Buddhahood Controversies – Introduction.”
“For example, “Brahmāyu Sutta (MN 91)” provides a detailed account of brahmin Brahmāyu, who was well-versed in the three Vedā (tiṇṇaṃ vedānaṃ pāragū). At the beginning of the sutta, brahmin Brahmāyu recites the qualities of a Buddha: ‘itipi so bhagavā arahaṃ sammāsambuddho vijjācaraṇasampanno sugato lokavidū anuttaro purisadammasārathi satthā devamanussānaṃ buddho bhagavā’ti. Then he sends his pupil to the Gotama Buddha to check whether he has the “thirty-two marks of a great man (dvattiṃsamahāpurisalakkhaṇāni).” How would brahmin Brahmāyu know about the qualities of a Buddha? It had come down in Vedic teachings! It is good to read the English translation: “With Brahmāyu.”
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
Yes. It is possible that the Buddha was referring to visible expansions of a nearest star that eventually “blew up” as a supernova.
The view of sky would certainly be a lot different billions of years from now. The following is based on the prediction by NASA:
Collision of Andromeda with Milky Way:
We can’t really be too sure. So whether Buddha was referring to the increase of temperature in stages or the visible craziness in the sky, the most important message of that sutta is the anicca nature of this world. Another significant statement by Buddha:
So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.
Many concepts in Vedic literature, including karma (for kamma) got into the Vedas from Buddha Kassapa, who was on Earth before Buddha Gotama.
Many Buddhist texts say that Buddha “burrowed” the idea of “karma” from Hinduism. This was my assumption too before I found the correct interpretation of kamma/kamma vipaka which is a lot different from the “supernatural force of morality governed by Gods” idea of karma. This foundational concept can be used as an axiom to examine the self-consistency of Buddha Dhamma which makes it appropriate for a scientific approach. Isn’t it ironic that the exact same thing has happened since Mahayana Buddhism started using the Sanskrit terms with Vedic ideas?
But it is crazy to think that humans have been here for billions of years. Considering the fact that most of our technologies have been innovated in the past few thousand years, I can’t imagine the sheer number of wars, pandemic, natural disasters, etc that have caused mass extinctions all over the planet. What a crazy world we live in!
-
Yes. I think it is important to have a separate post on it. I will try to make it the next post.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
I don’t know if you plan to mention this in that post but I think it would also be worth pointing out that Buddha banned the use of Sanskrit words. In the forum I see some folks subconsciously using words like “karma” and “dharma” which should be discouraged in my opinion. We should make it clear that Buddha didn’t “copy” from the Vedas (Hinduism).
-
-
I just posted: “Vedās Originated With Buddha Kassapa’s Teachings.”
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.