Respect for anariya yogi?

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    • #46093
      Gad
      Participant

      Ten Immoral Actions (Dasa Akusala)

      In the point number 5 

      In dasa akusala

      One of the wrong views is to believe that there is no benefit in respecting the ariya and anariya yogi with abhinnas. I totally understand the ariya. But for the anariya yogi(non-Buddhist) I don’t really understand. 

    • #46094
      Lal
      Keymaster

      It is extremely difficult to cultivate jhanas, and jhanas are necessary to cultivate abhiññā powers like going through walls, traveling with one’s manomaya kaya (gandhabba kaya), etc.

      • One must abstain from akusala kamma and give up sensual pleasures, including sex.
      • This is a nearly impossible task unless one becomes a Sotapanna and cultivates the correct versions of Anapanasati/Satipatthana. Then, one can give up all those with understanding.
      • But there were yogis before the Buddha who saw the benefits of overcoming kama raga and cultivating jhana. The jhanic experience (to experience a stress-free mind) is highly appealing. So, they were determined to spend their whole lives in deep jungles to avoid women and other sensory attractions. 
      • That is why we must respect anyone who has attained even anariya jhanas. Since they were highly moral, they always advised others to stay away from akusala kamma and to live moral lives.

      But of course, spending time cultivating anariya jhana is a waste of time since they do not help end the rebirth process (or even rebirths in the apayas.) One can be born a Brahma when one dies, but at the end of that life, one will be reborn in the human realm and subsequently can be reborn in the apayas. 

      • P.S. It is better to spend the time to attain the Sotapanna stage even without attaining any jhanas since they will be free of rebirths in the apayas forever. Ariya jhanas can be attained only by those Sotapannas who also must avoid sensory pleasures. But that becomes easier to do with understanding the “anicca nature” to a higher level. Living in a modern society with so many sensory attractions, cultivating Ariya jhanas (i.e., getting to the Anagami stage) is still difficult. It will be easier for a “bhikkhu Sotapanna” since bhikkhus are exposed to much less sensual pleasures.
      • #46097
        Gad
        Participant

         I forgot this important point sir is really hard to cultivate the Jhanas and stays away from the kama ragā. Thank you for the remind sir🙏🏿. I understand well the main point is to encourage and respect those who take us away from akusala.

    • #46099
      Lal
      Keymaster

      It is good to keep in mind the “three main lokas” of kama loka (four apayas, human realm, six Deva realms), rupa loka (16 rupavacara Brahma realms) and arupa loka (the four arupavacara Brahma realms).

      • Kama loka is the bottom tier, with the apayas at the bottom and the six Deva realms at the top.
      • Rupa loka is better, with minds at the jhanic levels. Humans can get to those better mental states by cultivating jhana and then be born in one of those realms that match the jhanic state they cultivated.
      • Aupa loka (with the four arupavacara Brahma realms) is at the top, with minimal mental stress. Humans can go beyond jhana and cultivate those arupavacara samapatti states and be subsequently born in such a realm.

      But the problem is that none of those states are permanent. They have finite lifetimes. Those who get even to the highest arupavacara Brahma realm will die there and be reborn in the human realm first, and then rebirth in any realm is possible. 

      • That is what we all have been doing in this “beginningless” rebirth process. Each of us has been born in most of the 31 realms (except those where only Anagamis can be reborn)  many times over.

      A human has the best chance of getting to the Sotapanna stage. Furthermore, human birth is extremely rare. That is why we must make our best effort to get to the Sotapanna stage: “Why a Sotāpanna is Better off than any King, Emperor, or a Billionaire.”

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      Gad
      • #46106
        Gad
        Participant

        Thank you Sir for this remind. But if i understand well we cannot directly pass to the Brahma realm to the niraya ?? For example a person cultivate all the  jhana and takes rebirth in a brahma world he will not go directly to the apaya right? He will reborn as a deva or a human before he do the apayagami?

        I was reading about the princesse who cultivate the Jhana. After she died as a brahma she was reborn as the daughter of a millionnaire. During this life she commit the apayagami actions. Many lifes later after the parinibbãna of the Lord buddha she becames arahant.

         

         

    • #46108
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Yes. Even though Devas could be reborn directly in an apaya (lowest four realms including niraya), Brahmas cannot be reborn directly in an apaya. They are first reborn in the human realm, and the subsequent rebirths take place depending on what happens there.

      • Devas are in the kama loka. To get a Brahama birth (and to transcend the kama loka), one must cultivate jhana and that takes a special effort. Brahma births are “mahaggata” or “higher quality” births.
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      Gad
      • #46109
        Gad
        Participant

        Yes. A story came to my mind. I was reading this story a few years ago. I forgot the name of this sutta. If someone can post the reference, that would be great. A great deva was enjoying sensual pleasure with several hundred female devas. The female devas were in a tree picking flowers. He was under the tree, and when he looked up the tree, it was empty. It’s like he never had anyone. He was really confused. He couldn’t find them anywhere. He went to the Buddha, who told him they were all in the apayas. Their lifespan was over. Then, after Buddha gave him a discourse, this deva became a Sotapanna.

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