Tagged: origin of life, Wrong views
- This topic has 11 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 9 months ago by Lal.
August 12, 2019 at 6:41 am #24254
The posts are at: “Origin of Life“.
Please refer to the name of the particular post (and the relevant bullet # if applicable) when posting a comment.
August 12, 2019 at 10:12 am #24265
Reference : latest post – Wrong View of Creationism (and Eternal Future Life) – Part 1
#5 ‘The Bible never mentions people having a second chance at life or coming back as different people or animals’.
The early ‘Church fathers’, the philosopher-theologians of the day, influenced by the Neo-Platonists in particular and by Greek thought in general, embraced ‘reincarnation’. Only later did the now dogmatic pope-dominated Church stamp out, forcibly at times, the ‘heresy of re-incarnation’.
The compilers of the New Testament in the late 4th Century A.D selected only those books for inclusion in the Bible that accorded with the current accepted tenets of the hierarchy, who were averse, to put it mildly, to the idea of their having been common men or ‘brutes’ in former existences. Many additions, obliterations and alterations were made and kept being made in line with the changing creeds or ‘whims’ of one pope or another. It was easy to do. Since printing had not yet been invented, all hand-written copies in all churches and monasteries were simply ‘corrected’.
So it is difficult to see where Jesus figures in all of this. To my mind, 90% of the whole of it is a fabrication, hundreds of them rolled into one. Yet something of his true teaching surely must have survived even after this mighty butchering and soup-mix of texts. One finds passages that teach compassion, good-will, generosity and point out the conflict between good and evil that each must go through in life.
Perhaps we will never know whether Jesus had indeed been a Buddhist monk during those ‘lost years’ between the ages of 12 and 29, taught the ‘pure teaching’ during his ministry and returned to India after the crucifixion.
August 12, 2019 at 12:05 pm #24266Tobias GParticipant
I can tell some views of catholic people regarding questions raised in the post.
Babys/kids who die early are going to heaven because they are so pure in the mind. Also all other people who had no chance to hear about the christian religion are “excused” in similar way, even e.g. indians of the Amazonas river.
Animals are indeed a problem. They are thought to be inferior and not really worth to be considered. Actually catholics become silent when asked in such a way and do not have an answer.
The big differences among the people are also not seen. Again no (good) answer from a catholic.
There is another new age theory which says that each being has chosen its “type of life”, say as a disabled person or a child that gets raped someday. We all come from God and we are actually God. God is thought to be so pure that he cannot perceive himself. In order to perceive himself he created the earth and sends parts of himself to earth to experience life. All our deeds have no consequences, even this life is an illusion, the world is an illusion. …This view is in my eyes totally twisted and sick. But with such a view you can “explain” some things and relax, because it does not matter how you behave…
August 12, 2019 at 1:15 pm #24267
Thank you Tobias.
I share your view about Catholics. I was born and raised and still live in a Catholic country. Up until the 60’s Church attendance was about 95%, now that is about 45%. People are starting to investigate things, no longer feeling bound by dogmas and fear of eternal hells and’fire and brimstone’. That is thanks mainly to the world becoming smaller, all genre of books being available everywhere, not to mention the internet.
When I was still a boy they used to say that babies and infants(who had not yet received baptism) go to a place called limbo. No one seemed to know what that state was exactly. Priests had a hard time handling inquisitive minds. The doctrine has now been abolished!!That is because, as with nearly every other dogma,’truth’ is invented, and can be modified or abolished by a decree of a human being, the pope.
You say : ‘this view is in my eyes totally twisted and sick’ What about prayer then? If prayer were efficacious, no one would be sick for long, no one would die, everyone would pass exams,etc, when relatives pray for you. Some years ago there was this football decider and the tv crew interviewed first a fan of one team, then a fan of the other in front of their clubs in their home town. Their wish? ‘ May baby Jesus bring the trophy here, to this town’ ** Both men believe in Jesus, both expect that he grant their wish. Now what will baby Jesus do? for he cannot grant both their wish. And note, it is an image of a baby they have in mind (in a crib, probably).
What it boils down to really is selfishness.
** Napoleon was once asked: ‘Whose side is God on’? He replied: ‘He is on the side with the heaviest artillery’ !!
He was a butcher, yes, but he was not stupid.
August 12, 2019 at 9:09 pm #24269Johnny_LimParticipant
If God is omnipotent and almighty, one can ask the question, “Can God create a rock so huge that He cannot lift it?” If God says Yes, it means something. If He says No, it also means something! Almighty itself is a paradox.
August 13, 2019 at 1:12 am #24272
The very idea of an omnipotent God is flawed to start with:
Even if this God had the power to create so huge a rock that he himself would not be able to lift it, that would be proof of his lack of omnipotence. Yet, even in that case, it would be he himself who thus makes himself non-omnipotent, so even this non-omnipotence would be HIS doing, so he can still claim to be omnipotent.
It comes to such logical absurdities.
August 27, 2019 at 4:55 pm #24537
Regarding the new post yesterday on, “Buddhist Worldview – Introduction“, there are two updates.
1. Siebe sent me the following sutta that has a description of the hell (niraya) by the Buddha:
“Devadūta Sutta (MN 130)“. A translation at, “Devaduta Sutta: The Deva Messengers“.
Much merits to Siebe and his family!
2. I just realized that there are 81 suttas in the “Devatā Saṃyutta” and 111 suttas in the “Devaputta Saṃyutta” in the Saṃyutta Nikāya, that describe visits to the Buddha by various devas to ask questions and discuss Dhamma.
– Translations of some of the suttas are available at Sutta Central (in the above links). Click on the “hamburger menu” on the top left to check for available translations.
– English translations of some of those suttas may also be found by doing a Google search.
I have revised #6 of the post to include the above information.
Also, it would be better if questions on future posts in the new series on “Origin of Life” are posted under this general topic. That way we can have all that information under one topic.
August 28, 2019 at 12:51 am #24541Tobias GParticipant
It is strange that King Yama speaks in terms of Buddha Dhamma as if he would know the Buddha Dhamma. Then he could have reached stream entry. King Yama would also not support the torture of others.
Also strange these hell wardens create very bad kamma for themself while punishing other beings.
Is the hell not a place where all those bad gathi gather and torture each other? So no one would be safe in hell because there are too many beings with hate.
August 28, 2019 at 7:31 am #24544
Tobias wrote: “It is strange that King Yama speaks in terms of Buddha Dhamma as if he would know the Buddha Dhamma.”
From your full post, you seem to think that all “hell beings”, including King Yama are subjected to torture. That is not really true.
– As I have pointed out many times (regarding deva and brahma realms), concepts and ideas about our world do not directly apply to other realms.
– Regarding your above statement, we can roughly compare “hell wardens” and King Yama to policemen and the head of the police department in a city. They are doing a tough job. Even though the policemen are not there to be punished, they get battered too while trying to control criminals. They probably could get other jobs, but that job of controlling criminals is compatible with their “gati”. They get satisfaction out of that. It is according to the “sankhara” that they cultivate (not liking what criminals do and genuinely wanting to do something about it). In fact, some of them may actually be born as hell wardens. The bodies of those hell wardens are made to be able to bear the harsh conditions. They do not feel the “unbearable heat” as hell-beings do in some hells, for example.
– Another point is that King Yama is more like a deva in a lower deva realm. He is likely to visit the human realm at times.
You wrote: “Then he could have reached stream entry. King Yama would also not support the torture of others.”
Just because one can appreciate the value of Buddha Dhamma, and even working hard to attain Stream Entry, does not mean one can get there easily.
“Also strange these hell wardens create very bad kamma for themselves while punishing other beings.”
– Again, this is a good comparison with policemen. Policemen do acquire bad kamma by beating up criminals at times, but they also gain good kamma by helping out the general population.
“Is the hell not a place where all those bad gathi gather and torture each other? So no one would be safe in hell because there are too many beings with hate.”
No. Hopefully, the above description would be helpful. Hell-beings may attack each other too, just like inmates in our prisons (I just realized that our prisons may a be good comparison too, in some aspects). But those tortures are done by the hell wardens. In many cases, the hell-beings subject themselves to torture too.
– One example mentioned by Waharaka Thero is the presence of trees in some hells with razor-sharp leaves. A beautiful woman beckons from the top of the tree and the hell beings climb the tree trying to beat each other to get there. In the process, they get cut up (again, their bodies are “designed” by kammic energy to just feel the pain, but not to die). By the time they get to the top, the woman is on the ground beckoning from there. It is a non-stop process.
– So, I would not disregard these descriptions of the hell out-of-hand. One reason for starting this series is to point out that there are many things in this world that we cannot perceive, but true.
P.S. Also, see, “Buddha Dhamma: Non-Perceivability and Self-Consistency“
August 28, 2019 at 7:58 am #24545
Further to king Yama and the Sotapanna stage, I read or heard a desana (not on here) that he actually aspires to attain a human birth specifically for that purpose. Moreover, it seemed to me that it was more of a resolve, a very strong determination rather than a mere aspiration.
He should know about the suffering hell-beings must go through more than most – so it makes sense that he is so bent on freeing himself forever of the tortures there.
August 29, 2019 at 11:09 am #24569
I had forgotten about a post an old post on the hell: “Does the Hell (Niraya) Exist?“.
It has more information on this topic and I have just revised and updated it.
September 2, 2019 at 7:20 am #24643
Please direct any questions on the new post, “Contact Between Āyatana Leads to Vipāka Viññāna” here.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.