Post on “Rūpakkhandha and Rūpa Upādānakkhandha”

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    • #45949

      It’s a minor problem.

      Rūpakkhandha and Rūpa Upādānakkhandha


      • There are four types of upādāna. Those are diṭṭhupādāna (wrong views,) silabbatupādāna (rituals,) kāmupādāna (for sensual pleasures,)  and attavādupādāna (sense of “me” or “mine.”) The first two removed at the Sotapanna stage, third at the Anāgāmi, and the fourth at the Arahant stage of Nibbāna. Note the combination of words. For example, diṭṭhupādāna is a combination of diṭṭhi and upādāna.

      But the recent post(Upādāna Paccayā Bhava – Two Types of Bhava) said:

      Sequence of Removal of Upādāna

      15. The correct order is diṭṭhi upādāna, kāma upādāna, sīlabbata upādāna, attavāda upādāna.

      • One enters the Noble Path by getting rid of diṭṭhi upādāna via comprehending the worldview of the Buddha. This can be done only via learning the correct Dhamma.
      • Then one contemplates the dangers of kāma assāda and gets rid of kāma upādāna at the Anāgāmi stage.
      • The last two are removed completely only at the Arahant stage.
      • All types start decreasing in strength at the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage.

      So it should be revised.

    • #45961

      Thanks. I revised #2 of “Rūpakkhandha and Rūpa Upādānakkhandha.”

    • #47880

      I wrote it down because I remembered while reading Vibhanga. I may be wrong, but I think we should consider the possibility that sīlabbatupādāna is not the same as bhavupādāna.


      Tattha katamaṁ sīlabbatupādānaṁ? Ito bahiddhā samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ sīlena suddhi, vatena suddhi, sīlabbatena suddhīti—yā evarūpā diṭṭhi diṭṭhigataṁ diṭṭhigahanaṁ diṭṭhikantāro diṭṭhivisūkāyikaṁ diṭṭhivipphanditaṁ diṭṭhisaññojanaṁ gāho patiṭṭhāho abhiniveso parāmāso kummaggo micchāpatho micchattaṁ titthāyatanaṁ vipariyāsaggāho—idaṁ vuccati sīlabbatupādānaṁ.

      Vb 17

      Ṭhapetvā sīlabbatupādānañca attavādupādānañca sabbāpi micchādiṭṭhi diṭṭhupādānaṁ.

      Considering these texts, sīlabbatupādāna and bhavupādāna could be different things.

      Upādāna Paccayā Bhava – Two Types of Bhava

      #16 said that those two are the same because Peṭakopadesa 5(43.5) and Nettipakarana 36(12.1) have bhava upādāna listed instead of the sīlabbata upādāna.

      But considering the context of those commentaries, it may not be enough reason to read that way.

      Pe 5

      43.5 Kāmāsavo kāmupādānaṁ, bhavāsavo bhavupādānaṁ, diṭṭhāsavo diṭṭhupādānaṁ, avijjāsavo attavādupādānaṁ, imehi catūhi upādānehi pañcakkhandhā.

      But in 43.2, it said: Patthanaganthanaabhisaṅkhārakāyasaṅkhāraṇaṁ bhavāsavassa lakkhaṇaṁ.

      Establishing to make kaya abhisankhara with ganthana is the lakkhaṇa of bhava asava.

      So 43.5 may be a sentence that connects bhava upadana to bhava asava defined in that meaning.

      Ne 36

      12.3 dutiye vipallāse ṭhito anāgataṁ bhavaṁ upādiyati, idaṁ vuccati bhavupādānaṁ;

      I think the thought process that concluded the below based on the Ne 36 is justifiable. However, considering that there are only two examples of bhavupādānaṁ in Tipitaka, it is difficult to confirm the meaning of it from that context.

      #16 of Upādāna Paccayā Bhava – Two Types of Bhava

      Those who cultivate anariya jhāna or anariya samāpatti do that because of their desire to be born in a Brhama realm; they follow certain moral conduct (sīla) with sīlabbata upādāna because they have the desire to be reborn with bhava upādāna.

      To sum up, bhavupādāna might not be equal to sīlabbatupādāna, but a specially defined upādāna written only in Petakopadesa and Nettipakarana.


    • #47883

      Dosakkhayo wrote: “I may be wrong, but I think we should consider the possibility that sīlabbatupādāna is not the same as bhavupādāna.”

      • Of course, those are two are different. “Silabbata upadana” means to “adhere to various anariya techniques to enjoy kama or jhanic pleasures (may be even believing they lead to Nibbana.) “Bhava upadana” means “craving a certain  type of existence” hoping that would lead to permanent happiness.
      • Did I say in a post they are the same? If they are the same, there is no need to list them as two categories.
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    • #47907

      OK. If you get a chance, would you please check #16 of Upādāna Paccayā Bhava – Two Types of Bhava?

    • #47916

      I have revised #16 and #15 to make it more clear.


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