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Phassa (Contact) – Contact With Pasāda Rupa
Contact (Phassa) Is Between a Rupa and an Āyatana (Pasāda Rupa)
2. When we see person X, for example, that is contact (phassa) between our internal āyatana (eyes or more correctly, cakkhu pasāda rūpa) and external āyatana (an image of person X in this case). That is the process stated in verse, “cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjāti cakkhuviññāṇaṃ.” The word “paṭicca” here refers to that contact (phassa).
- Due to that contact, a series of cittā flow in mind. That is a citta vithi. We discussed that in detail in “Citta Vithi – Fundamental Sensory Unit.” Also, see Ref. 1.
- That leads to a mental phenomenon that we call consciousness (in this case, cakkhu viññāna). When we look at person X, we can instantly identify that person. This is amazing because the image that falls in the back of the eye is tiny. See Ref. 1.
- Humans and animals generate such “awareness” or consciousness when seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, or thinking about an external rūpā.
Cakkhāyatana Is Cakkhu Pasāda Rupa
3. Cakkhāyatana is not the eyes. The “seeing” takes place in the mind, and the “seat of the mind” is the hadaya vatthu. The image captured by the eyes gets transmitted to the cakkhu pasāda rupa, which transfers the image to the hadaya vatthu. See the previous post, “Citta Vithi – Fundamental Sensory Unit.” It is a good idea to review that post.
- All five physical senses (cakkhu, sota, ghāna, jivhā, kāya) work that way. See Ref. 2 for a Tipiṭaka reference.
- Memories and other concepts come to the mind via mana indriya in the brain. Those signals get directly transferred to the hadaya vatthu. We may get to those details in future posts.
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Phassa and samphassa are entirely different. Cakku pasada rupa is not cakkayatana. It is cakku indriya. Since cakkayatana is using indriya with san, I think this should be revised.
Additionally, as we mentioned earlier in 50300, it might be helpful to add that samphassa occurs after phassa to distinguish those more clearly.
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I decided to delete that post.
Your comments are correct. Thank you for pointing them out. Please don’t hesitate to point out such issues.
- Many terms in Paticca Samuppada are in the “uddesa version,” and the “niddesa versions” must be used to get the correct interpretation. Specifically, saṅkhāra (abhisaṅkhāra), viññāna (kamma viññāna), phassa (samphassa), vedanā (samphassa-jā-vedanā). See “Sutta Interpretation – Uddēsa, Niddēsa, Paṭiniddēsa.”
- I will review the posts in the “Paṭicca Samuppāda in Plain English” section and revise them as needed. If anyone sees any other posts needing revision, please post here.
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This is not an error, but a point I’d like to explore further.
3. The other main point is that viññāna is multi-faceted. It has embedded in it one’s memories as well as one’s future hopes and plans, and those lie under the surface. This is what Sigmund Freud called the subconscious. But there is no separate “subconscious”; there is only one citta at a time.
- The mind does this with the help of several mental factors (cētasika) like memory (manasikāra) and perception (saññā). We will discuss that in the future.
3. Viññāṇa, Thoughts, and the Subconscious
6. Such vipāka viññāna are waiting in the background to bring their fruits. There may be many types hiding beneath the surface. This is what Sigmund Freud called the “sub-conscious”.
- When I am paying for my groceries, my thoughts stay focused on that transaction. But there can be many types of viññāṇa lurking “in the background”. I may be building a house, studying for an exam, planning a trip, planning a birthday party for my child, etc. and all those “viññāṇa” are working in the background even though I am not thinking about any of them at the time I am paying for my groceries.
Q. How does the background operation of vinnana occur? Is this related to purana kamma?
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“Q. How does the background operation of vinnana occur? Is this related to purana kamma?”
- This requires a bit of detailed explanation. I will get to it at least by tomorrow.
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1. A sensory input is received in “short duration packets” (of about one hundredth of a second duration), processed by the brain and forwarded to the “seat of the mind” or hadaya vatthu.
- When watching a movie, for example, sensory information on sights and sounds come in via two streams of packets: one stream brings in movie scenes and the other associated sounds. As you can see, these are mixed up. But the mind can separate the two streams and ALSO tally them to form a coherent video stream and a sound stream.
- That is a fantastic achievement! I tried to explain that, for example, in “Vision Is a Series of “Snapshots” – Movie Analogy,” and “Citta and Cetasika – How Viññāṇa (Consciousness) Arises.”
2. In the above process, the “mansikara” cetasika (one of the seven universal cetasika that arise in every citta) plays a significant role. It performs the tasks of (i) separating the two different sensory streams (in watching a movie) and (ii) connecting the packets of each stream in the order received and making sense of both streams. Thus, we feel like we see the movie and also hear the dialogue simultaneously.
- This “mansikara” cetasika is also responsible for recalling relevant memories. For example, while watching a movie, one may recall a different old movie with one of the actors.
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Now, let us address the issue brought up by Dosakkhayo. His question was:
- When I am paying for my groceries, my thoughts stay focused on that transaction. But there can be many types of viññāṇa lurking “in the background”. I may be building a house, studying for an exam, planning a trip, planning a birthday party for my child, etc. and all those “viññāṇa” are working in the background even though I am not thinking about any of them at the time I am paying for my groceries.
Q. How does the background operation of vinnana occur? Is this related to purana kamma?
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3. Dosakkhayo: “When I am paying for my groceries, my thoughts stay focused on that transaction.”
- That is exactly right. However, you may also recall a previous related transaction. For example, you may realize that the price is significantly higher now and ask the cashier why.
- Here, it is the “ekaggata” cetasika (another universal cetasika that arises in every citta) that keeps the mind focused on one task. The “mansikara” cetasika is responsible for recalling any previous related memories (that remain as namagotta in vinnana dhatu.) These two cetasika keep the mind focused on the task at hand (or the arammana) and extract any related memories.
4. Now, when you finish the groceries and start driving to get back to the house, your mind will be focused on that task.
- Now, the mansikara cetasika will recall memories (where your house is and how to get there, for example.)
- P.S. See “Where Are Memories Stored? – Viññāṇa Dhātu” and “Rupa, Dhammā (Appaṭigha Rupa) and Nāmagotta (Memories).”
That should give some basic ideas.
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” What I want to understand is how different kamma vinnanas can be in the background.”
I explained that recently in the thread “Sankhata and Nāmagotta.” See my comment on August 3, 2024 at 11:09 am.
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It is better to say vipaka vinnana arises automatically due to accumulated kammic energy (residing in viññāṇa dhātu).
- In response to vipaka vinnana, the mind generates kamma vinnana (expectation of a certain outcome) leading to the accumulation of more kammic energy.
But I can see what your confusion is. One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana only if one has samyojana intact. As the number of samyojana goes down, the likelihood of kammic energies automatically bringing sensory inputs (arammana) will diminish.
- But recalling past events has nothing to do with kamma vinnana. All memories remain intact as “namagotta” and may be retrieved even by an Arahant with no samyojana left. For example, they may recall what happened last week but without any cravings (thus, they do not lead to new kamma vinnana).
- Therefore, an Arahant would not feel the urge to go see a movie or go to a restaurant to eat a tasty meal.
I think you may be thinking too hard again. Take a break and then review what was discussed up to now.
- It is easy to mix things up and get confused. I hope I did not unintentionally confuse you.
- If you still have issues unresolved, ask the remaining questions tomorrow. Take a break for now.
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One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana only if one has samyojana intact. As the number of samyojana goes down, the likelihood of kammic energies automatically bringing sensory inputs (arammana) will diminish.
Whenever I try to sit down in peace, my mind automatically gets bombarded with stressful thoughts about random things (yes, my life is a mess). When I analyze those thoughts, I can see that there is a pattern. Even though I don’t consciously generate them, they also don’t seem random as they involve memories of sensory experiences experienced with abhisankhara. But for an arahant with no samyojana left, are there no subconscious thoughts? In other words, do all thoughts need to be consciously generated by spending energy from food?
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“But for an arahant with no samyojana left, are there no subconscious thoughts?”
- No. They don’t generate “subconscious stray thoughts” automatically. They don’t have any expectations in this world.
- However, they can recall anything if they need to. For example, to recognize someone, one must recall past interactions with that person. When Lady Visaka visits, the Buddha’s mind automatically recalls past interactions with her and recognizes her. There is no need to think about who she is consciously.
- But Buddha’s mind would not engage in defiled thoughts like how beautiful she is. There is no agitation of mind based on recalling who she is. No samyojanas exist in Buddha’s mind to trigger such “stray thoughts.”
P.S. I discussed some fundamental aspects in the following section: “Essential Abhidhamma – The Basics.”
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One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana only if one has samyojana intact. As the number of samyojana goes down, the likelihood of kammic energies automatically bringing sensory inputs (arammana) will diminish.
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This is a really important point. It gives me a lot of insight. Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!
Let me summarize what I’ve understood.
The process of recalling memories is separate from kamma vinnana.
This is true for both arahants and puthujjanas.
However, kamma bija, which are formed by our expectations about the world, can automatically generate vipaka vinnana.
This process stops when the related samyojana are eliminated.
Therefore, the pollution/purification of the mind and the process of namagotta gaining energy and returning as dhammā are separate mechanisms.
Arahants perform this using kiriya citta.
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I wrote, “One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana only if one has samyojana intact..”
- What I meant can be explained with the following example.
- Angulimala killed 999 people and was ready to kill even his mother to get to the thousand, which was his goal. So, he had created a kamma vinnana with that expectation. But once meeting the Buddha, that kamma vinnana was nullified.
- The kammic energy created by his previous actions is still there in vinnana dhatu. But that specific arammana (to kill anyone and add another finger to his collection) would not arise in him ever again.
However, numerous random arammana can arise in anyone, including an Arahant.
- Arammana is a sensory input. As long as one has a physical body, it is subjected to various sensory inputs all day.
- But the difference is that an Arahant will not attach to any arammana, while anyone below that COULD attach to some of them.
This is why writing to explain a given concept can be tricky. I may be focused on describing a given aspect, which may give some a wrong impression.
P.S. It could be better to write what I quoted above as follows: “One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana AND trigger a kamma vinnana to arise only if one has samyojana intact..”
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OK.
My understanding is as follows:
An arahant is in the same position as a puthujjana in the sense that they are exposed to arammana due to their past kamma.
However, since arahant has removed all samyojana, arahant will not generate kamma vinnana regardless of any arammana.
I think in the sentence “But that specific arammana (to kill anyone and add another finger to his collection) would not arise in him ever again,” it should be kamma vinnana instead of arammana. Thank you.
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That is what I wrote at the end:
P.S. It could be better to write what I quoted above as follows: “One has expectations built up by accumulated kammic energy. However, such kammic energies can automatically bring arammana AND trigger a kamma vinnana to arise only if one has samyojana intact..”
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Many of the points here are also in the following post:
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Thank you cubibobi!
I read Viññāṇa – Consciousness Together With Future Expectations.
#5. With the establishment of this new kamma viññāṇa, there is now an expectation in X’s mind of getting a date to go out with Y and may be getting to marry Y someday.
- That is a manō viññāṇa that stays hidden in X’s mind. It has the expectation of getting an opportunity to have a close relationship with Y.
- That idea will remain hidden in X’s mind and can be re-surfaced at appropriate times, especially when seeing Y again or someone mentions Y’s name, for example. This is “viññāṇa paccayā saṅkhāra” in Paṭicca Samuppāda.
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So the vinnana paccaya sankhara is the key! I think I got the idea.
Kamma vinnana waits in the vinnana dhatu until it returns to the mind as dhammā.
I was aware of this point, but I didn’t realize that the part quoted in 51239 was referring to this. Now I see that the two are saying the same thing.
I sincerely thank Lal for patiently answering despite my slowness.
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