May 1, 2023 at 11:52 am #44595dosakkhayoParticipant
I think this is a minor issue.
11. “Katamañca, puṇṇa, kammaṃ kaṇhasukkaṃ kaṇhasukkavipākaṃ? Idha, puṇṇa, ekacco sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi kāyasaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharoti, sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi vacīsaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharoti, sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi manosaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharoti. So sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi kāyasaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā, sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi vacīsaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā, sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi manosaṅkhāraṃ abhisaṅkharitvā sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi lokaṃ upapajjāti. Tamenaṃ sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi lokaṃ upapannaṃ samānaṃ sabyābajjhāpi abyābajjhāpi phassā phusanti. So sabyābajjhehipi abyābajjhehipi phassehi phuṭṭho samāno sabyābajjhampi abyābajjhampi vedanaṃ vedeti vokiṇṇasukhadukkhaṃ, seyyathāpi manussā ekacce ca devā ekacce ca vinipātikā. Iti kho, puṇṇa, bhūtā bhūtassa upapatti hoti; yaṃ karoti tena upapajjāti. Upapannamenaṃ phassā phusanti. Evampāhaṃ, puṇṇa, ‘kammadāyādā sattā’ti vadāmi. Idaṃ vuccati, puṇṇa, kammaṃ kaṇhasukkaṃ kaṇhasukkavipākaṃ. (3)”.
Translated: “And what, Puṇṇa, is dark-and-bright action with a dark-and-bright result? Here someone generates abhisaṅkhara of both types. Then he is reborn in a realm with both happiness (sukkhita) and suffering (dukkhita). When reborn in such a realm, he contacts appropriate sukkhita and dukkhita sensory contacts. Being touched by such contacts, he feels sukha and dukha feelings interchangeably, as in human, deva, and vinipatika (apāya) realms. Thus a being’s rebirth is due to a being’s actions. One gets a rebirth through the actions one has performed. Thus I say beings are the heirs of their actions. This is called dark-and-bright action with a dark-and-bright result”.
Citta can only contain sobhana or asobhana cetasika. It’s possible to have only one of them, but it can’t have both. So I wonder how that kind of abhisankhara is structured. Does it have both types of cetasika? Or do they come out alternately?
May 1, 2023 at 1:24 pm #44597LalKeymaster
There are several essential things to remember.
1. Sobhana and asobhana cetasika (i.e., punnabhisankhara and apunnabhisankhara) cannot arise in the same citta that arises in a billionth of a second.
2. However, during some kamma, billions of citta vithi with different cetasika can arise. For example, someone may donate money to a homeless person with a pleasant mind. But just after that, he may regret making that donation, thinking, “Would he use that money to buy drugs?”
- In another example, one may chase a cat and save a mouse’s life. But then he may wonder, “Did I do a bad kamma by depriving the cat of a meal?” Indeed he did both within that time span of several minutes.
3. Furthermore, kaṇha (bad) vipaka and sukka (good) vipaka do not need to be due to a previous single kamma. When conditions are right, the vipaka of many bad kamma may come to fruition. It works the other way, too, for good vipaka.
- In general, Devas and Brahmas in realms mostly experience good vipaka. Those in the lowest realm (niraya) experience mostly bad vipaka.
- They all may have about the same numbers of good and bad kamma vipaka waiting to bring fruit. But Deva and Brahma kaya are unable to experience strong bad vipaka. In the same way, some in a niraya may have strong “good vipaka” waiting to materialize, but such vipaka cannot materialize as long as they are in a niraya.
- The human realm is in the middle. Our bodies are unable to bear harsh vipaka (as in the apayas) or good strong vipaka (as in Deva/Brahma realms).
- See “Anantara and Samanantara Paccayā.”
4. Only a Buddha can sort complex situations involving kamma vipaka. But the above can be a guide.
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May 2, 2023 at 4:16 am #44619JorgParticipant
“1. Sobhana and asobhana cetasika (i.e., punnabhisankhara and apunnabhisankhara) cannot arise in the same citta that arises in a billionth of a second.
2. However, during some kamma, billions of citta vithi with different cetasika can arise…”
Just to clarify, one pancadvara citta vitthi + the three following manodvara citta vitthi all contain only sobhana or asobhana, right?
May 2, 2023 at 7:27 am #44627LalKeymaster
Jorg asked: “Just to clarify, one pancadvara citta vitthi + the three following manodvara citta vitthi all contain only sobhana or asobhana, right?”
That is correct. Once a citta vithi starts, each subsequent citta “builds on” the previous one.
- That holds for the subsequent three manodvara citta vithi too.
- All those are based on one response to an arammana.
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