October 13, 2022 at 12:16 pm #40851dosakkhayoParticipant
1. Let us first list the key steps involved.
(i) A sensory experience with one of the six sense inputs (seeing, hearing, smell, taste, touch, memory recall) is the first step.
(ii) Attachment (taṇhā) to that sensory experience based on our habits/character (gati.)
(iii) Embracing (willingly getting involved) in that sensory experience with certain goals.
(iv) Thinking, speaking, and doing things to accomplish that goal or goals.
During that last step, we accumulate kammic energy to bring about future rebirths and all other types of kamma vipāka.
In this list, avijja starts to get involved from the third step.
So, tanha is first(ii), then avijja activates with abhisankara(iii). Right? Or do tanha and avijja activate at the same time(ii)?
October 13, 2022 at 2:30 pm #40859LalKeymaster
Yes. Exactly right!
Tanha and avijja arise together. That is why four of the eight entities in a suddhatthaka are from avijja, and the other four are from tanha.
“The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka”
– That is also why both “mohakkhayo Nibbanam” and “tanhakkhayo Nibbanam” describe Nibbana. As we know, avijja is a reduced version of moha.
I have revised the post in question to make your points easily seen with a chart:
“Key Steps of Kammic Energy Accumulation“
October 13, 2022 at 3:10 pm #40861TobiParticipant
In short I’d say that’s correct, but there are several invisible loops involved.
I’ll go into more detail about seeing from my point of view
explain to see if my thinking is right.
(i) there is a sensory experience, i.e. an ārammaṇa.
(ii) Seeing which, upon ignorance (avijja) before, leads to rebirth (bhava taṇhā) with the sight arising from karma and karma vipaka, with the sight (light and dark) that this sight-consciousness causes. This trinity as seeing-consciousness (cakkhu viññāna) merges into consciousness.
(iii) that consciousness (vipāka viññāna) with citta, cetasika and garthi/garti, where cetasika and garthi/garti decide whether we attach with tanhā (we cling with greed or hatred whatever avijja involves).
(iii/b) However, immediately after the arising of a vipāka viññāna, a paṭicca samuppāda process takes place in the next citta.
(iv) through tanhā, then, abhisaṅkhāra arises
With memories, there is no ārammaṇa at (i) but a Dhamma from the mind entering at point (iii). To make it short.
I hope it’s okay to say something as well because these are important steps and I’m really looking forward to Lal’s analysis.
PS Sorry I wasn’t fast enough. I wanted answers before Lal.
But I still send and then look at the chart.
October 13, 2022 at 4:30 pm #40863LalKeymaster
Very good, Tobi.
– Please feel to comment further after reviewing the chart.
– It should be gathi/gati and NOT garthi/garti.
– Kamma instead of karma.
– Pali instead of Sanskrit!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.