May 14, 2020 at 4:16 am #29575
Hello so I’ve been practicing for a couple of months and I feel the Niwima effect. As Rhaga, Dwesha, Moha decrease. I maintain the 8 precepts with ease now. I’ve definitely never been calmer and joyful. But there are moments I realize, I am slightly unhappy. Doing Vidarshana, I realized the aswada i was looking for was more Niramisa Sukkha, once i applied the paticasumpupadaya to it, I saw how stupid I was being. Cause its a happiness arising from letting go, its contradictory to want it badly. Amazingly, meditating on this, the dukkha Vedana slowly dissolved.
Anyways I reading today that theres are only two types of Vedana.
1) Karma Vipaka – only felt in the body (kaya)
2) Smphassa ja vedana
That means absolutely any sort of suffering which has nothing to do with the body, is to do with the second. And that means, we are holding on to the word somewhere and looking for an aswadaya? That means there is a part somewhere we haven’t properly contemplated anicca?
Because there is no way, to get a mental dukkha vedana from a karma Vipaka?
I hope the question is clear! thankyou! :)
May 14, 2020 at 6:49 am #29577LalKeymaster
Welcome to the forum! Glad to hear about your progress.
Yes. Any current suffering via the body is due to past kamma. We need to bear any such suffering with upekkha. Of course, one MUST engage in all possible remedies like medical help, good exercise, healthy foods, etc.
As you said, it is smphassa-ja-vedana or the vedana that we create in our minds that lead to FUTURE suffering.
– Yes. We create them because of the ignorance (or absence of full clarity) of the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature.
Yes. All mental dukkha vedana (domanassa vedana) are mind-made or smphassa-ja-vedana.
By the way, the steps in the Paticca Samuppada need to be understood in this wider context.
The “uddesa” version is: ““avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra; saṅkhāra paccayā viññāna; viññāna paccayā nāmarūpa, nāmarūpa paccayā salāyatana, salāyatana paccayā phassō, phassa paccayā vēdanā, vēdanā paccayā taṇhā, taṇhā paccayā upādāna, upādāna paccayā bhavō, bhava paccayā jāti, jāti paccayā jarā, marana, soka-paridēva-dukkha-dōmanassupāyasā sambhavan’ti”
In the “niddesa” or “expanded” version: ““avijjā paccayā abhisaṅkhāra; abhisaṅkhāra paccayā kamma viññāna; kamma viññāna paccayā nāmarūpa, nāmarūpa paccayā salāyatana, salāyatana paccayā samphassō, samphassa paccayā smphassa-ja-vēdanā, smphassa-ja-vēdanā paccayā taṇhā, taṇhā paccayā upādāna, upādāna paccayā bhavō, bhava paccayā jāti, jāti paccayā jarā, marana, soka-paridēva-dukkha-dōmanassupāyasā sambhavan’ti”
“Uddesa” and “niddesa” levels of explanations are important in sutta interpretations too: “Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta – Structure“
May 14, 2020 at 10:42 am #29589
Thank you for your kind comment.
This makes the path much clearer to me.
Now I see it as, every bit of Mano Dukkha experienced, is an opportunity to Vidarshana.
Because I was under the impression we can get Mano Dukkha, from a Karma Vipaka. Eg- people with depression.
Am I right in assuming that in these states of mind, it is actually Paticca Samuppada happening at a very fast rate? Would you recommended, people with controlled depression to try out this particular method? I have such a friend, and I’m wondering if she might benefit.
I got to know of this deeper level of the Paticca Samuppada recently, and it has really made it a lot easier to contemplate.
I did not know there are “Uddesa” and “niddesa” levels of explanations in other teachings too.
Will definitely check it out.
May 14, 2020 at 11:39 am #29590LalKeymaster
Domanassa vedana could arise when someone is depressed by a kayika vedana (due to avijja). Of course, the kayika vedana is a kamma vipaka.
– By the way, karma is a Sanskrit word. We should try to use Pali words like kamma and Nibbana (instead of nirvana). I know that we are so used to using these Sanskrit words.
Another way to look at this is that ALL factors of akusala-mula Paticca Samuppada are eliminated at the Arahant stage.
– However, those are just the factors in the “niddesa” version above.
– For example, “smphassa-ja-vedana” will not arise in Arahant. But kayika vedana (sukha or dukkha) will arise until Parinibbana (death of the Arahant).
Your friend should start learning Dhamma. That is the way to reduce avijja and gradually reduce smphassa-ja-vedana.
May 14, 2020 at 12:28 pm #29592
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