My spiritual experiences and their relation to Dhamma

Welcome! Forums Personal Experiences My spiritual experiences and their relation to Dhamma

This topic contains 11 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  y not 3 months ago.

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  • #22518

    Akmal
    Participant

    Hello,

    My name is Akmal, I came across this website only a few days ago and I’ve read around 50+ articles with utmost interest. I have a few questions and to ask them, I’d need to explain a bit about my spiritual journey.

    I started getting into meditation and spirituality around the end of 2017. My search led me to a Discord (a chat application) group where people, just by being in presence of each other, would feel strong energies in their bodies. Earlier we used to call these “transmissions” (which, to my understanding, is a very similar phenomena to the effect Desanas from Sotappana’s have on listeners). I experienced the same when I joined the group. I started feeling strong tingling sensations on top of my head, forehead, chest, solar plexus, and recently on my pelvic floor and I still do to this today. (even as I’m writing this)

    This was considered a sign of the start of what we would call a spiritual purging process. By being in the group, we would notice our deepest issues come up on surface. A purge episode could be triggered at any time and would go away only by itself and it could get absolutely excruciating sometimes. Our view was that this purging process was clearing away our bad Kamma and would lead us to complete enlightenment.

    We had people in the group who we called “energy sensitives”. These people could look at you and they would get what they called a “karmic signature”. Looking at people with really bad kamma would give me horrendous physical symptoms for some time. These people also used to tell us how far along the purging process we were by looking at our pictures.

    However, some of us left the group because we believed the place was too rigid and obsessed about “reaching full enlightenment” without being aware of their deep personal problems. Some people were developing messiah complexes as well. As a result, we had an understanding that by only being self-aware of your problems and issues can we really be “in line” with the purging process.

    That understanding led me to this website. Although I have strong intuitive feeling that any tradition that advocates moral living with rigorous self-awareness is the best way, I’m still being as pragmatic as I can with the teachings presented in this site (Like the Buddha said) and as such I’ve first started trying to remove at least the Big 8 through constant awareness of Vaci, mano and kaya sankharas to see if I really can experience a calm mind.

    My questions are
    1) What is the significance of the purging process (and chakras) in the Dhamma teachings? Because purging is a reality for me and if I can get some insight into it I can really strengthen my faith in Dhamma teachings.

    2) What does Dhamma say about these energy sensitive people? are these Abhinaa powers?

    And please forgive me if this is the wrong section. :)

  • #22520

    SengKiat
    Moderator

    Welcome to the forum! Akmal.

    There is a difference between Kundalini Awakening and Stages of Nibbana.

    Kundalini Awakening is the cleansing of the body while Stages of Nibbana is the cleansing of the mind. Although Kundalini Awakening maybe of help to the Stages of Nibbana, it is not the same as Stages of Nibbana.

    To attain the Stages of Nibbana, one need to cleanse the mind by cultivating the good (alobha, adosa and amoha) and avoid all evil (lobha, dosa and moha). This is as stated in the Dhammapada verse 183.
    [Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ,
    kusalassa upasampadā,
    Sacittapariyodapanaṃ,
    etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ.
    ]
    [To avoid all evil,
    to cultivate good,
    and to cleanse one’s mind
    —this is the teaching of the Buddhas.]

    Your questions:
    1) What is the significance of the purging process (and chakras) in the Dhamma teachings? Because purging is a reality for me and if I can get some insight into it I can really strengthen my faith in Dhamma teachings.

    As stated above, these purging process has nothing to do with the Dhamma teaching, it is just a body cleansing process where the meridians that has been blocked is being cleared. In the process, you will feel the tingling sensations when those blocked meridians are being cleared.

    2) What does Dhamma say about these energy sensitive people? are these Abhinaa powers?

    Abhinna can only be attained if you have reached the fourth jhana (Sutta definition) or fifth jhana (Abhidhamma definition) and need to have complete mastery over these jhanas which will need to take a very long time to cultivate if you have not cultivated it in the previous life.

    A good start for beginners will be to read the topic on “User’s Guide to Pure Dhamma Website” and follow the suggested flow of the topics.

    You may also want to check out these sections:

    1. Living Dhamma

    2. Bhāvanā (Meditation)

    3. Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses

    With metta, SengKiat

  • #22521

    Mikkel
    Participant

    Greetings Akmal & everyone.

    Just a continuation on SengKiat´s reply – This article in the Bhavana section may be of particular interest for your reflection: possible effects in meditation kundalini awakening

    May you all attain the deathless,

    Mikkel.

  • #22522

    Christian
    Participant

    Could you ask here all the question you would like to get answered, it will be easier? “Cleansing kamma” does not lead to Nibbana but better rebirth so there is no way you can attain Nibbana like this. You can easily cheat other people who do not know anything about Buddha Dhamma into believing anything you want just triggering for them some special experiences to manipulate them by doing that. This is why most “spiritual” communities are dangerous places to be as inside most of those communities are rotten besides some people who actually do good in the world.

    If you are into discord you can join and practice with us on discord too https://discordapp.com/invite/g6UWq4b

  • #22523

    Akmal
    Participant

    Thank you guys for all the responses. I read the posts you linked and I think I’ve gotten a good idea of what my experiences were and how to proceed from hereon.

    I also joined the discord server, hoping to learn in the company of everyone!

  • #22524

    Akmal
    Participant

    Another question came up while studying Dhamma. It is said that a Sotapanna removes the wrong views and permanently removes the 5 thoughts that result in the Kamma that leads to 4 apayas, which means a Sotapanna will never do acts that generate the apaya Kamma in future. How does that fix the problem of a Sotapanna’s past Kamma that could result in Apaya?

    Forgive me if I’m missing something very obvious here.

  • #22525

    Lvalio
    Participant

    Correct. A Sotapanna has seeds of Kamma that can lead to rebirth in Apayas.
    But the point here is: a Sotapanna already saw the futility of Rebirth in apayas, so he not grasp any rebirth there…

  • #22526

    y not
    Participant

    Akmal,

    The mind of one who has become a Sotapanna has been ‘taken over’ by the qualities of a Sotapanna. He will not grasp any of those bad kamma at the dying moment, because his mindset is permanently focused on all that is good – sila, dana, the 5 precepts, ever-increasing comprehension and verification in life of Tilakkhana, and, most importantly, Refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha and aveccappasada until the very end.

    There will be no room for those bad kamma beeja, the conditions in his mind for them to take hold will not be there.

  • #22528

    Akmal
    Participant

    Thank you for the illuminating responses. y not and Lvalio.

  • #22529

    y not
    Participant

    To conclude,

    I know many fear the apayas, and this is because they cannot tell for certain whether they have reached the Sotapanna Stage. Still, they need not fear. Lest one should think that what I said above is only my understanding, here is support from the suttas:
    SN 55.24:
    After the cases of Arahants, Anagamis and Sakadagamis are presented, there follows:
    Take another person who has experiential confidence in the Buddha … With the ending of three fetters they’re a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, bound for awakening.This person, too, is exempt from hell, the animal realm, and the ghost realm. They’re exempt from places of loss, bad places, the underworld.

    Y E T , even those who do NOT have aveccappasada, i.e are NOT Sotapannas, but, “they have these qualities:the faculties of faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom” together with either:
    “And they accept the principles proclaimed by the Realized One after considering them with a degree of wisdom”, or
    “And they have a degree of faith and love for the Buddha”:

    THIS PERSON TOO DOESN’T GO TO HELL, the animal realm, and the ghost realm. They don’t go to places of loss, bad places, the underworld.

    The sutta itself starts off with the Buddha stating : “when a lay follower has for a long time gone for refuge to the Buddha, the teaching, and the Saṅgha, how could they go to the underworld?” At the time Sarakani was not a Sotapanna; he ‘undertook the training'(became a Sotapanna) only just before dying.(SN 55.25) ‘saranam’ alone (taking Refuge) suffices to be exempt from the apayas.

    This is just to dispel the fear of the apayas from the minds of many. Just strive on, whatever stage you are at.

    Metta to all

  • #22531

    Akvan
    Participant

    Hi y not,

    I have a question based on the sutta you quoted above;

    When it is stated “THIS PERSON TOO DOESN’T GO TO HELL, the animal realm, and the ghost realm. They don’t go to places of loss, bad places, the underworld” does this mean that such a person will never be born in the apayas ever again? Meaning is it a permanent thing?

    If it is permanent, and that such a person will not be born in the apayas ever again, then he has to be an ariya (atta purisa puggala). If such a person is not a sotapanna, and is permanently kept away from the apayas, then such a person would have to be a sotapanna anugami isn’t it?

  • #22533

    y not
    Participant

    Hello Akvan,

    The question has been raised before. If such a one goes to the apayas anytime in the future, but not immediately after death, then it could not be said: ‘he does not go to the apayas’.

    (However… in the case of the 4 classes of Ariyas, the word ‘parimutto’- exempt, released, delivered -is given, while in the last two cases, those who have gone for Refuge, the word is ‘aganta’ -does not go. Now my understanding of Pali is limited to key words and their derivatives and may be faulty or lacking, so I leave any bearing that the different meaning of the words may have to others.)

    As I read, the Sutta is saying that although he is not a Sotapanna, therefore not an Ariya, and not even a Sotapanna anugami (for these too have aveccappasada in the Buddha), he who has just started out on the Path, through either intellectual investigation into the Dhamma or through an intuitive trust in the Buddha – he has gone for Refuge, that is, having seen that life is full of suffering, physical, mental and emotional, having for a long time not come up with a solution, with a way out of this suffering, now he sees a way out. The all-important first step has been taken, progress is now possible. The question here arises: but will he continue on the Path or will he fall away? If he is to progress, he has to be free of the apayas. And if the Sutta says that he is free of the apayas, then he will progress.

    So, Akvan, I see this as the preliminary stage to the Path.

    Metta

    (My last post took a full 2 days to show on the Forum. I have found that clicking on my name and on ‘replies created’ will show it. So this tack may be used by anyone expecting a reply from a participant.)

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