Maha Brahma’s Domain

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    • #32866
      Vinh
      Participant

      in the brahma nimantanika sutra brahma talks about his domain and under which condition you are under it what is meant by domain.

    • #32868
      Lal
      Keymaster

      I am not sure either. Can you copy and paste the relevant passage?

      Also please provide the link if possible (or where you read the English translation). Is it Sutta Central?

    • #32869
      SengKiat
      Moderator

      @vinh says :

      brahma nimantanika sutra brahma talks about his domain

      This should be the sutta “MN 49 Brahmanimantanika sutta” which @vinh inquires about “domain“.

      If you attach to earth, you will lie close to me, in my domain, vulnerable and expendable.
      Sace kho tvaṃ, bhikkhu, pathaviṃ ajjhosissasi, opasāyiko me bhavissasi vatthusāyiko, yathākāmakaraṇīyo bāhiteyyo.

      With mettā, SengKiat

    • #32870
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Thanks, Seng Kiat.

      I am going to be busy today. Hopefully, I will be able to look at the sutta later today.

      If anyone can address Vinh’s question, please feel free to do so.

    • #32876
      Lal
      Keymaster

      It turns out that I have discussed parts of this sutta in the post, “Anidassana Viññāṇa – What It Really Means” starting at #12.
      – But it is a good idea to read the whole post.

      In #12, I discuss the background of why the Buddha made a trip to Brahma loka to meet the Baka Brahma, who came to the wrong view that he was the supreme entity controlling the world. The verse that Vinh quoted is part of a verse that Baka Brahma uttered saying that he was “in control” of the whole world made of pathavi, āpo, tejo, vāyo.
      – The Buddha explained to him that there were higher Brahma worlds that Baka Brahma was not even aware of.

      The English translation of the sutta, “On the Invitation of Brahmā” is good enough to see that context.
      – But the translation of some deep verses in the sutta like, “viññāṇāṁ anidassanaṁ anantaṁ sabbato pabhaṁ..” is not good in that translation.

      Anyway, please feel free to ask questions if this is not clear.
      – Please refer to specific verses or bullet #s in my post when asking questions.

    • #32887
      Vinh
      Participant

      thank you for responding the confusing part for me was that buddha acknowledged his domain Buddhas quote:Brahmā, I too know that if I attach to earth, I will lie close to you, in your domain, vulnerable and expendable. If I attach to water … fire … air … creatures … gods … the Creator … Brahmā, I will lie close to you, in your domain, vulnerable and expendable. ofc the buddha or any being above the first jhana is above that degree but it doesnt invalidate his claim for those lower than him(so brahma seemed not completetly wrong but he missed crucial details that the buddha knew but not him which explains why he could remain deluded for that long afterall brahma is pretty old. this being also seems to be what christians pray too so even there claims arent unfounded as they like to call him allmighty etc which the buddha defined what he can do/do not which isnt allmight ofc(nothing like that exists but he appears to thm like that for a reason)). the thing i understood it its similar two how tavatimsa has the most influence in comparison to the other heavens(above tavatimsa is the last in contact with earth i think) on earth like how the 4 kings report to sakra once in a few moons( i think it was) whats happening on earth or how we humans dictate the “fate”(ofc what they make out of it is there own choice thus there next rebirth is to some degree there choice although ignorance being the strong karma in this realm thus making escaping it hard but never impossible) of the animals/how we like to mess with them from time to time. so i imagined it like jurasdiction exept that the higher ones dont know who the chief is (i mean even human realm has minimum contact with the realm higher than them and its uncommon to see the action of that realm without some mastery in the divine eye through birth or practice so it seems aproptiate to think its also not the norm that lower heavens dont necessarily know higher abodes than them with maybe a few individuals knowing but not the majority) excluding the pure abodes who are oblivious to matters of dominion.

    • #32888
      Vinh
      Participant

      the devas all also seemed always conected to natural forces like deva of fire etc so maha brahma would be a deva/brahma connected to the physcial universe at least 10.000(which was the number given when people reffered to maha brahma in the sutras) world systems of control would be an accurate representation of that which is ofc the lowest brahma plane but things inside it would be his sphere of influence(ofc lesser brahmas would be his staff)(with mara being like a big shareholder in it ) .i also heared that a brahma or deva can take physcial shape by manifesting a course body so maybe that is how the idea of an allmighty etc creator began to circulate or a brahma of maha brahmas retinue got reborn as human re collecting his past live which is think is what may have been jesus after all what he seemed to have taught were the brahma viharas(if that guy even existed).this is just what id find most coherent and easist to imagine for me but i am not an expert so i hope to find some educated guess on the subject or even answer.i was using the sutta center translation.

    • #32903
      Lal
      Keymaster

      There is a deeper point conveyed in that sutta.

      1. Maha Brahma is more powerful than any being below that domain. But that is the same a king is above all others in his domain. Both have finite lifetimes. In the next birth, they both can be reborn in lower realms.

      2. Even a worm living today had been a Brahma, Deva, or a human in many previous lives.

      3. Until attaining Nibbana, any living being WILL BE subjected to suffering in the four lowest realms in the future UNLESS at least the Sotapanna Anugami stage is attained.

    • #32904
      Vinh
      Participant

      i wouldnt say i completetly understood that but that specfic brahma of the highest 1 st jhana has a life span of exactly 1 aeon(buddhist world age) expecialy when the world age ends and everything retracts back into the second jhana plane it becomes apparent there being no end to the cycle there also was a mention of him attaining sotappana after the buddha visited him but i cant remember where i read that so a confirmation or not would be helpful.thank you very much for you answer.

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