Kukkuravatika Sutta (Majjhima Nikāya 57) – Kammakkhaya

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    • #18390
      Tobias G
      Participant

      Lal wrote:
      “And what, Puṇṇa, is bright action with bright result? Here someone generates a sukkhita (abyābajjhaṃ or destined to or bound by sukha) kāyasaṅkhāra, a sukkhita vacīsaṅkhāra, a sukkhita manosaṅkhāra. Having generated such sukkhita abhisaṅkhara, he is reborn in realm with happiness (sukkhita). When he is reborn in a such a realm, he contacts appropriate sukkhita sense contacts. Being touched by such sukkhita contacts, he feels sukha feelings, as in the case of subhakinha deva realm. Thus a being’s rebirth is due to a being’s own actions: one gets a rebirth through the actions one has performed. Thus I say beings are the heirs of their actions. This is called bright action with bright result”

      Does “subhakinha deva realm” cover the brahma realms, too? I know that sometimes the word “deva” means all beings above the human realm.

    • #18395
      Lal
      Keymaster

      “Does “subhakinha deva realm” cover the brahma realms, too? I know that sometimes the word “deva” means all beings above the human realm.”

      Yes. Sometimes deva and brahma realms are clumped together as “deva” in many suttas. In the Dhammacappavattana Sutta, beings in all realms above the human realms are referred to as “deva realms”; see #6 in “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta – Introduction“.

      In “31 Realms of Existence“,
      Subhakinha is listed as ““subhakinha deva”.
      – But clearly it is above the deva realms in kama loka.

      We just need to keep this mind.

    • #18397
      y not
      Participant

      Tobias,

      Thank you for this but which Sutta are you referring to (quoting Lal) ?

      The question here is: does this sukkhita abhisaṅkhara lead to the subhakinha deva realm irrespective if done with comprehension of Tilakkhana or not? Or, better said, does one have to have attained magga phala to generate this sukkhita abhisaṅkhara? Or, does one return or not?

      I ask this because another sutta AN 7.52:lists the various realms to be attained by the practice of dana depending on the motive:- Questions About Puredhamma Posts › Jhana and magga pala –

      February 9, 2018 at 7:57 am: ‘After the first six motives of Dana with their particular rewards in the 6 realms immediately above the human one are enumerated by the Self-Perfected One, He states the seventh motive to be : ‘with the thought: this is an ornament for the mind, a support for the mind’ – cittalankaracittaparikkharam- leading after death first to the realm of the retinue of Brahma and to Anagami after that.’…to which Lal replies: February 9, 2018 at 5:00 pm: “There are many suttas such as the one you quoted (which I had not read), where it is shown that magga phala can be attained without going through any jhana….But this sutta is interesting in that it says Anagami stage is possible by alms giving or making offerings (dana)….
      On the surface it appears that one may not need to have a comprehension of Tilakkhana or the Four Noble Truths in order to attain the Anagami stage” and February 10, 2018 at 8:41 am : “Exactly how one can get to the Anagami stage by dana or giving. It is not just the act of giving. One has to have the right mindset, and that comes from grasping Tilakkhana;”

      Does this apply to sukkhita abhisaṅkhara?

      Metta

    • #18398
      Tobias G
      Participant

      Hi y not,
      it is from Lals post Kukkuravatika Sutta (Majjhima Nikāya 57) – Kammakkhaya in section Sutta Interpretations

      the sutta link: https://suttacentral.net/mn57/en/sujato

      In this sutta 4 kinds of actions (kamma) are mentioned, but only #4 leads to magga phala (neither dark nor bright with neither-dark-nor-bright result), which is abandoning of all other 3 kinds of kamma.

    • #18401
      Tobias G
      Participant

      When I get the discussion on AN 7.52 right, getting to the Anagami stage by dana still requires the understanding of Tilakkhana or the futility of this world. With this understanding one will do punna/kusala kamma, because this is the only kamma which should be done.

    • #18404
      y not
      Participant

      Tobias,

      Thank you..for both replies and for bearing with me. I must have a break now. Getting dizzy. I have sat here for hours.

      Much metta

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