[TripleGemStudent]

I understand that some of the English translations of Sutta’s are not the best/most accurate. I’m just wondering if I’m understanding the concept/idea correctly of this sutta?

https://suttacentral.net/sn54.11/en/sujato

“Mendicants, if wanderers who follow another path were to ask you: ‘Reverends, what was the ascetic Gotama’s usual meditation during the rainy season residence?’ You should answer them like this. ‘Reverends, the ascetic Gotama’s usual meditation during the rainy season residence was immersion due to mindfulness of breathing.’

– Lord Buddha tells the monks to tell the wanderers on another path that he was immersed in anapanasati?

– If Lord Buddha was immersed in anapanasati during the rain retreat, is there any teachings on why he was immersed in anapanasati?

Thank you in advance.

Metta

[Lal]

Many suttas have been badly mistranslated due to a lack of understanding of key concepts on the part of the translator.

The passage that you quoted should be translated as :
“Bhikkhus, if wanderers who follow another path were to ask you: ‘Reverends, what was the ascetic Gotama’s usual meditation during the rainy season residence?’ You should answer them like this. ‘Reverends, the ascetic Gotama’s usual meditation during the rainy season residence was immersion in Anapanasati.”

Translating Anapanasati as “breath meditation” is a serious error.
– Translating bhikkhu as a “mendicant” or a “beggar” is a serious error too.

Engaging in Anapanasati is to contemplate the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature of this world. Alternatively, it is also “taking in the eightfold path” and “discarding the opposite (miccha ditthi through miccha samadhi)”.
– For those on the Noble path (those who have understood the meaning) that would make them progress on the Path towards various magga phala and eventually to Arahanthood.
– For those who have already attained Arahanthood (or the Buddhahood), as well as those who are still on the Noble Path, it also leads to a pleasant state of mind (including jhanic experiences).

That last point may raise questions. If the Buddha (or an Arahant) has already discarded the opposites of the Noble Path Factors, then why do they need to engage in Anapanasati?
– Because that provides relief to the mind.
– Even Arahants have “agitation of the mind” (NOT defilements) due to kamma vipaka. They also have bodily dukkha/sukha vedana due to kamma vipaka as everyone else.
– There are several suttas that state clearly that contemplation of Tilakkhana is advised for all, including Arahants.

Engaging in Anapanasati is also referred to as “Brahama vihara” in several suttas, including the Karaniyamatta Sutta. “Karaniya Metta Sutta – Metta Bhavana”
– Dealing with average humans causes distress in the mind, even for a Buddha. One time, some bhikkhus started breaking up into two factions and when he could not get them to settle the dispute, the Buddha went into the forest and spent some time by himself.

[TripleGemStudent]

I just wanted to say thank you Lal for having answered my inquiry.

“Dealing with average humans causes distress in the mind, even for a Buddha. ”

– I’m starting to find having long drawn out mundane conversations causes distress to my mind.

[Lal]

“– I’m starting to find having long drawn out mundane conversations causes distress to my mind.”

Yes. Those are vain/frivolous talk or sampappalāpā, one of the ten akusala kamma.

“Ten Immoral Actions (Dasa Akusala)“

[Jorg]

Dear Lal, the below statement you made on sep 14, 2020, would be a great addition to the recent post of Ānāpānasati Not About Breath – Icchā­naṅga­la Sutta

“That last point may raise questions. If the Buddha (or an Arahant) has already discarded the opposites of the Noble Path Factors, then why do they need to engage in Anapanasati?
– Because that provides relief to the mind.
– Even Arahants have “agitation of the mind” (NOT defilements) due to kamma vipaka. They also have bodily dukkha/sukha vedana due to kamma vipaka as everyone else.”

I did not realize that to such an extent. I’m glad it was previously raised and answered. Are there any more mentions of this in the Tipitaka that Buddha or Arahants went into seclusion? Or how often that happened?

[Lal]

Thank you, Jorg, for pointing that out.
– Yes. I will add that to the post with a few references from the list below.

Jorg asked: “Are there any more mentions of this in the Tipitaka that Buddha or Arahants went into seclusion?”

1. The following list probably has more suttas on that:
“16 results for diṭṭha­dhamma­su­kha­vihārāya”

2. Those Arahants who could get into nirodha samapatti did that whenever they got time to be free of the “daily stresses.”
– That would be even better.
– See “Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti”
– P.S. Most of us probably cannot even grasp the subtle differences among those various states. But nirodha samapatti is the “ultimate liberation” attained at Parinibbana. It is NOT A FEELING, it is just the TOTAL ABSENCE of any suffering or even a trace of agitation.

[Jorg]

Thank you for the reference. I checked several suttas and the main message comes down to:

“A perfected one has nothing more to do, and nothing that needs improvement.
Natthi, khvāvuso, arahato uttari karaṇīyaṁ, katassa vā paticayo;
Still, these things, when developed and cultivated, lead to blissful meditation in the present life, and also to mindfulness and situational awareness.”
api ca kho ime dhammā bhāvitā bahulīkatā diṭṭhadhammasukhavihārāya ceva saṁvattanti satisampajaññāya cā”ti.
(Disregard the “mindfulness and situational awareness” translation of “satisampajannaya.”)

One sutta refers to jhana in specific.
None of them (perhaps the commentaries, but there’s no translation there) state any duration of time.

I assume Buddha chose to go into nirodha samapatti as well. Then again, that’s not the same as Anapanasati.

[SengKiat]

Greetings! Jorg,

“I assume Buddha chose to go into nirodha samapatti as well.”

In the Buddha’s Daily Routine, the Buddha had his nirodha samāpatti at between 4am and 5am.

Piya Tan of Minding Centre had an article on Suppati Sutta (SN 4.7) with details from the commentary that include the Buddha’s Daily Rotine.

With mettā, Seng Kiat

[Lal]

To add to the discussion: One can be in nirodha samapatti for only up to seven days because the physical body can not stay alive after that.
– On the other hand, one can live with Brahma viharana (Ananapanasati samadhi) for as long as one wishes.

We also need to realize that nirodha samapatti requires sitting in one place for the duration. One has to get into rupavacara jhanas in sequence, get into higher arupavacara samapatti, and finally enter nirodha samapatti. But that may probably take only a few seconds for a Buddha or an Arahant like Ven. Sariputta.
– Conversely, one can be engaged in regular activities (eating, exercise, meal preparation if needed, etc.) while in Aanapansati samadhi. But one lives in seclusion.

[Jorg]

Thank you SengKiat, I had no idea his “daily schedule” was something that was known.

[Author]

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