April 7, 2023 at 11:58 am #44277TobiParticipant
After a heart or organ transplant, does the recipient take on characteristics of the donor?
1) In Buddhism there is the concept of Gandhabba or Manomaya Kaya which refers to the mental body. This mental body consists of three kaya: Kammaja, Cittaja and Utuja. The physical body is called Aharaja Kaya or Karaja Kaya. So you can think of a person as two overlapping bodies: the physical body that we see and the gandhabba with a very subtle body that encloses or interpenetrates the physical body.
2) How should the Gati change there?, or how should the Rupa/energies in the Manomaya Kaya suddenly change due to the external matter after an organ transplant. When was this point completed?
3) Then it must be that the mental body influences the energy composition in the Manomaya Kaya.
Manomaya Kaya <<<))))-+-((((>>> karaja Kaya (interaction)
4) That we can change the brain with the help of our cittaja, i.e. the stream of thoughts, has already been proven by experiments (by experiments with bhikkhus in the MRT)
5) The physical body that we value so much and think of as “me” is just a temporary shell. Just like everything material in this world, the body grows, remains apparently stable for a while, and then deteriorates into death.<br />
But how can a shell change the inner rupa/energies, gati?
6) In my opinion, this view is correct in only one direction at the moment, and that is from the view of the Manomaya Kaya with Rupa, Citta, Cetasika on the mental body. Here, if it were true, the foreign implanted organs would also have an influence on the Rupa/energies of the Gati in the Manomaya Kaya. be touched up!
7) Related to Āyatana and attachment to things through the mind.
8) Āyatana is a Buddhist term translated as “sense base”, “sense media” or “sense sphere”. In Buddhism there are six internal sense bases (Pali: ajjhattikāni āyatanāni; also known as “organs“, “gates”, “doors”, “forces” or “roots“) and six external sense bases (bāhirāni āyatanāni or “sense objects”; also known as vishaya or “domains”). There are six internal-external (organ-object) saḷāyatana (Pāli; Skt. ṣaḍāyatana), pairs of sense bases: eye and visible objects, ear and sound, nose and smell, tongue and taste, body and touch, mind and mental objects.
A) There may be something else hidden in the suttas about the connection from the mental body to gandhabba or manomaya kaya. So what does the mental body imply with sankata in pancakkhandha? And in what way?
B) How is the rupa of the mental body related to the total rupa in pancakkhandha?
C) What happens to a Brahma being in the arupa loka that has no manomaya kaya and what happens to pancakkhandha and Rupa in Rupa,vēdanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa.
At the end of the 1990s, the American Claire Sylvia caused a worldwide sensation with her book “Herzensfremd”. In it she not only describes how her heart and lungs of a motorcyclist who had an accident were transplanted.
Soon after the operation, the then 48-year-old discovered personality traits and preferences that she had never known before. Although the former dancer had previously abhorred fast food, she suddenly developed an appetite for “chicken nuggets” and beer.
Driven by a new restlessness, she saw herself as a woman who suddenly walked like a teenage footballer and had strong sexual desires. She dreamed about the donor, knew his name and knew his appearance.
When the patient managed to find the relatives of the deceased, it turned out that 18-year-old Tim actually had all of these qualities and preferences.
Claire Sylvia believes in cellular memory and that information is stored not only in the brain but possibly also in the heart. In the same year, the US neuropsychologist Paul Pearsall published the results of a study that is said to have shown parallels in the behavior of organ donors and recipients.
The study was criticized by many doctors and transplant patients because international standards were not observed during the survey and because it was obviously an exception. So far there has been no scientific proof that a new heart actually means a new or additional personality.
And yet: A heart transplant apparently changes the recipient. The transplantation of a life-saving organ puts those affected in an exceptional situation. At least that is the experience of Professor Hans-Werner Künsebeck, psychologist in the Department of Psychosomatics and Psychotherapy at the Hannover Medical School.
Since 1987 he has looked after transplant patients before and after the all-important operation. “The patients experience a change. Those who were previously bedridden and weak can suddenly walk again. Those who could hardly breathe before can breathe freely again,” says Künsebeck. Again and again he observes a real euphoria, a “honeymoon” phase – a feeling of elation that newly married couples often experience on their honeymoon.<br />
However, this phase subsides when problems arise, due to small or large rejection reactions, as many sufferers experience with their new organ. A phase of anxiety often follows. The patient is afraid of getting infected. “Patients live under the sword of Damocles, because they know, of course, that a transplanted organ only has a limited lifespan,” explains Künsbeck.<br />
But in addition to these feelings, in his experience those affected also feel a great deal of gratitude. They are grateful to the organ donor and the treating physicians. In addition, the patients live more consciously than before and enjoy small things like the first flowers in spring.<br />
Even patients who have not had such extraordinary experiences as Claire Sylvia sometimes experience surprises. Künsebeck: “The immunosuppressive drugs – these are the drugs that prevent the body’s own cells from attacking the foreign tissue – sometimes cause a change in the sense of taste. Former favorite dishes may then no longer taste so good, other foods are suddenly perceived as delicious.”<br />
Anyone who attributes this to the organ donor develops strategies for dealing with the newly gained life. “But there is nothing mystical about it, it can be explained,” says psychotherapist Künsbeck.<br />
This explains the impressive story of an eight-year-old girl who received the heart transplant of a ten-year-old girl who had been murdered. Every night he would wake up screaming because he dreamed of the man who murdered his heart donor. Eventually it was taken to the police. There, it could accurately describe the killer’s appearance, which led to the killer being caught. It turned out that the time of the crime, the weapon, the crime scene, the clothes he wore matched exactly what the transplanted girl had previously said about it.
Organs store mental things<br />
We know from psychosomatics that certain psychological problems often manifest themselves in certain organ diseases. Hans Stolp supports the thesis that the reason for this lies in the fact that the etheric body of the organs stores certain themes, i.e. it has a specific storage function. According to his findings, the liver’s etheric body stores everything that has to do with our moods; that of the lungs has everything to do with facts, and the etheric body of the heart has everything to do with moral values or with the ethical aspects of what we have said or done.
Specifically, according to Stolp, the kidneys have something to do with communication. Being able to be open with other people while showing emotional vulnerability has a positive, stimulating effect on their kidneys. However, the etheric body of the kidneys also carries communication experiences from previous lives. These (unconscious) memories can have an inhibiting or inspiring effect on our ability to communicate today and thus on kidney functions. If you feel misunderstood or lonely and you don’t know how to reach other people, this weakens the kidneys. These “old” feelings then stand in the way of impartial communication with other people.
A kidney disease wants to get the person concerned to think about how they deal with their fellow human beings in order to see what they can improve there. If his diseased kidney is replaced by someone else’s, the affected person also loses the associated learning task, and the new kidney also brings with it the ability to communicate stored in its own etheric body – which usually manifests itself as a change in the personality of the recipient. Perhaps sharing is much easier now; However, the person concerned has not worked for it, and so the lack will appear again in a future life, if not even worse.
The liver, in turn, stores any memories that still need to be processed. If she is burdened with too many unprocessed experiences, she becomes unbalanced and becomes ill. A transplant thus prevents this extremely important processing of difficult life experiences, which are supposed to help us to grow spiritually. According to Hans Stolp, the newly implanted liver also prevents you from being able to connect with your own unprocessed experiences, from which you should actually have learned. It is therefore becoming much more difficult to do one’s own “homework” in life and to tackle the “unfinished business”. Of course, the recipient also absorbs the donor’s raw experiences. So he has to deal with feelings that do not belong to him at all, but belong to the life of the donor. The processing programs of the donor and recipient get confused.
Cittajarupa the link between gandhabba and mental body!<br />
Cittajarupa distribute and arrange themselves in gandhabba, in time. From the patisandhi moment to the finished adult human. Through the influence of the mental body. The blueprint of the mental body is DNA. These cittajarupa are related to the patisandhi citta, in the hadyavatthu and the pancakkhandha, the heart base. But are not produced by patisandhi citta. The patisandhi citta produces the heart base where pancavokara bumi is also present.<br /><br /><br />
The base of the heart has the Hadayavatthu as its base. The base of the heart is associated at the lowest level by 79 cittas of the 89 or 121 cittas.<br />
Of these, 75 Citta are Manoviññāṇa who are responsible for the production of Cittajarupa, Kamajarupa. Kamajarupa always arise because kamma viññāṇa are always mano viññāṇa. On the other hand, mano viññāṇa can be either vipāka viññāṇa or kamma viññāṇa.<br />
There are no cittajarupa in the ArupaLoka, only 4 vipaka citta associated with 10 citta-viññāṇa contained in the 79 citta’s. /><br />
The heart base is the ground for citta and has been influenced by the patisandhi citta in the patisandhi moment and this heart base in turn influences citta/consciousness. So you can mentally feel Kilesa associatively heart base.<br />
Those cittajarupa that have the underlying vayo dhatu accumulated throughout the gandhabba arise and affect (anubhava) the manomaya kaya and the mental body and vice versa.
Cittajarupa arise even in the Bhavaṅga state.<br />
So one can see that consciousness affects not only the rupa on which it depends, but all the way to the living body and back!<br />
I could go deeper by including Mental Factors Cetasika, Build-up Gati and PS Cycles, but that should first show how the mental body is influential as well.
So I would say in conclusion. If the donor really comes to terms with this and gives up all attachment to his organ and body in spirit, after physical death, there should be no problems for the donor and recipient and that would be a wonderful thing. Which will probably give the donor good kama even after death.
Buddha Dhamma is truly as deep as the ocean!!
Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu…._/|\_,_/|\_,_/|\_….
April 7, 2023 at 1:34 pm #44279LalKeymaster
We FIRST need to see whether the assumption is valid, i.e., to what extent does a recipient take on the donor’s characteristics?
I asked the Bing Chatbot for references, and it gave three (all before 2012):
At least according to the Bing Chatbot, there are no recent references. So, this is only a conjecture at this time. I don’t want to spend time on it.
- If there is further evidence, please post.
April 7, 2023 at 3:09 pm #44281TobiParticipant
Oh, sorry…. I found another error in my explanation. I exchanged the mental body for the physical body.
Cittajarupa the connection between Gandhabba and the physical body!
Cittajarupa distribute and arrange themselves in gandhabba. From the patisandhi moment to the finished adult human. Through the influence of the physical body. The blueprint of the physical body is DNA. These cittajarupa are related to the patisandhi citta, in the hadyavatthu and in the pancakkhandha, the heart base. But are not generated by patisandhi citta. The patisandhi citta produces the heart base where pancavokara bumi is also present.
The base of the heart has Hadayavatthu as its base. The base of the heart is connected at the lowest level with 79 cittas of the 89 or 121 cittas.
Of these, 75 are citta manoviññāṇa responsible for the production of cittajarupa, kamajarupa. Kamajarupa always arise because kamma viññāṇa are always mano viññāṇa. On the other hand, mano viññāṇa can be either vipāka viññāṇa or kamma viññāṇa.
There are no cittajarupa in ArupaLoka, only 4 vipaka cittas associated with 10 citta viññāṇa contained in the 79 cittas.
The heart base is the basis for citta and has been influenced by the patisandhi citta in the patisandhi moment and this heart base in turn influences citta/consciousness. This is how you can feel Kilesa associatively on a heart basis.
Those cittajarupa that have the underlying vayo dhatu accumulated throughout the gandhabba arise and affect (anubhava) the manomaya kaya and physical body and vice versa.
Lol. Nevertheless, thank you for your answer.
I’m looking for the answer to my feeling that everything is connected. Is it the spin or entanglement? I’m looking everywhere…..
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