June 24, 2019 at 2:48 am #23704Tobias GParticipant
#2: “Most people think that the first Noble Truth on suffering is the physical suffering itself, i.e., they associate it with the vedana cetasika…”
Vedana can be of 5 types: sukha, dukha, somanassa, domanassa, upekkha. Sukha, dukha and upekkha aris from kamma vipaka. But somanassa and domanassa vedana are mind made and fully removed at the Arahant stage. How are these 5 types connected to the universal vedana cetasika?
June 24, 2019 at 5:04 am #23705
June 24, 2019 at 7:04 am #23706LalKeymaster
Tobias wrote: “Vedana can be of 5 types: sukha, dukha, somanassa, domanassa, upekkha. Sukha, dukha and upekkha aris from kamma vipaka. But somanassa and domanassa vedana are mind made and fully removed at the Arahant stage. How are these 5 types connected to the universal vedana cetasika?”
Yes. Those are the five types of vedana and sukha, dukha and upekkha arise from kamma vipaka.
As the chart provided by Seng Kiat clearly illustrates, somannasa and domanassa vedana are fully mind-made.
– Those two are stopped from arising after the Arahant stage even in the present life.
All five types are associated with the vedana cetasika.
However, the point in the post referred to by Tobias is that the first Noble Truth on suffering is not the physical suffering (dukha) itself.
– In particular, people tend to believe that one could get rid of physical suffering experienced IN THIS LIFE can be removed by attaining Nibbana. That is not correct.
– Only the somanassa and domanassa are removed at Arahanthood (that experienced in this life itself).
– However, any and ALL suffering (including physical suffering) are removed after the Aarahant attins Parinibbana, i.e., after the death of Arahant’s physical body.
So, the First Noble Truth (Dukkha Sacca or “Truth ABOUT Suffering”) is about ALL future suffering. More precisely, it is about what kinds of sufferings are associated about the ALL future lives, including those horrific sufferings experienced in the apayas, not just the mild types experienced in the human realm.
Then the Second Noble Truth (Dukkha Samudaya or “san” + “udaya”) is about how that expanded suffering arises, i.e., the root causes (lobha, dosa, moha or “san”). Of course, this is described by Paticca Samuppada.
– This is a bit more deeper, since one needs to see how one gets “attracted” to “san” only because one does not comprehend the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature of this world. Instead one perceives the nature to be of nicca, sukha, atta.
Third (Dukkha nirodha) shows how that suffering can be stopped from arising (“nir” + “udā”, where “udā” is “arising”), by getting rid of those three root causes: lobha, dosa, moha or “san”.
– That of course requires the comprehension of anicca, dukkha, anatta nature.
Fourth (Dukkha Nirodha Gāmini Patipadā) is the way to removal of “san”, i.e., the Noble Eightfold Path.
The difference between suffering itself and the First Noble Truth are also discussed in the post, “Is Suffering the Same as the First Noble Truth on Suffering?“.
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