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In the past I remember doing the metta bhavana, and saying the good wishes mechanically, not with much genuine feeling of compassion. In other instances I’d actually think about others’ suffering before sending out the good wishes, and when I did, I feel like the karuna cetasika had arisen. In the latter case, I notice that I’d get goosebumps accompanying those good wishes.
Do these goosebumps indicate the javana of a citta(higher potency)?
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I remember often when listening to music that can turn you up or doing things like in rollerblade or doing physical exercises (like the human flag to show off) often I had goosebumps. I do not know exact names but if you find it helpful it’s more related to high-esteem or high view about ourselves. We feel so good about ourselves that there is psychosomatic interaction. I can not tell what is the name in Pali, but if you have this in metta bhavana that means you feel very good about yourself or very high about yourself because of that metta.
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Hi Christian. So it is related to the asmi mana cetasika?
Awhile back I had found this interesting post(I recommend it as a good read) about goosebumps and its possible meaning as per other beliefs. It also mentions Abhidhamma.
From that link:
“In religious literature, the prickly feeling is also mentioned as an accompanying aspect of deep contemplation and meditation. In the Abhidhamma, the most recent part of the Buddhist Pali canon, the sensation of a prickling indicates a certain level of meditation: after the thoughts have ceased to flow, an overwhelming joy (priti) spreads throughout the whole body which may intensify to total ecstasy. ”1) Does the above have any validity?
2) Does the Abhidhamma mention anything about the goosebumps sensation in meditation(as opposed to goosebumps in other situations like music or fever) and its possible meaning?
3) Or is that goosebumps feeling is rooted in asmi mana and moha?
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Upekkha100 asked:” Do these goosebumps indicate the javana of a citta(higher potency)?”
I guess upekkha’s original post was made in the Abhidhamma Forum because of the connection to javana citta. However, this is an important topic that would be of interest to anyone doing formal meditation sessions. That is why I moved it to the Meditation Forum.
In the second post upekkha quotes this from an external link:
“From that link:
“In religious literature, the prickly feeling is also mentioned as an accompanying aspect of deep contemplation and meditation..”Yes. What upekkha is feeling could be early signs of getting into deeper samadhi. It has nothing to do with asmi mana and moha. In the contrary, upekkha is moving away from asmi mana and moha.
When one starts getting into deeper samadhi, one starts “feeling it” in the body. This may come in several different forms: goosebumps, needle pricks (not painful just heightened sensation), pressure points in the body or the head, etc. Some of these are discussed in, “Possible Effects in Meditation – Kundalini Awakening“.
When one switches from the regular metta bhavana to Ariya metta bhavana (with some comprehension of Tilakkhana), the javana power of cittas is indeed increased, as upekkha wondered. Then one’s thoughts become much more powerful, and they will affect one’s own body.
Even in anariya meditations, as long as one’s mind is temporarily released from kama sankalpana (that means not only sexual thoughts but also thoughts about any type of sense plesures), the javana power of citta are increased. It is not only kama sankalpana, but also thoughts about mundane things like worrying about job-related problems, worrying about kids, etc. This is why those ancient yogis were able to get into anariya jhanas by going into forests and staying away from sense attractions AND also interactions with other humans.
However, when we follow the Path of the Buddha, we don’t need to hide away from the society. The calming of the mind comes through understanding the true nature of this world.
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These bodily sensations only come during formal meditation right? Then I don’t think this applies to me, because I get these goosebumps outside of formal meditation during the following situations:
1) When I send out good wishes with actual feeling. This metta bhavana is not formal. I’ve been trying to do it throughout the day, even while standing, before eating, before brushing my teeth. I notice a clear difference in my body between when the wishes are sent out mechanically(as in I’m saying it but I don’t really mean it)-this is when I don’t get goosebumps vs when I say it and do mean it-this is when I get goosebumps even if I’m sending the wishes while standing.
2) Listening to and chanting Namaskaraya and Tisarana vandana mindfully-goosebumps. When both are done mechanically-no goosebumps.
3) Seeing an image of the Buddha while actually thinking about a Buddha’s attributes-goosebumps. Whereas when I don’t think about the attributes- no goosebumps.
A case of cetana or cetasikas affecting the body?
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Goosebumps are not related to the the spiritual process. Energy movement in the body which affects body “prickling” “pressure” etc. are related to the cleansing of the body in relation to cleansing of the mind. It’s pretty regular phenomena even if you just practice anariya meditation.
Physical goosebumps are related to clenching of perineum, pleasant sensual feeling in relation to six senses or situation when you doing something “with flow” and you see how good you are in that flow.
The spiritual aspects of that I had many as I practice meditation by 10+ years by now insistently so I had high spectrum of experiences which are different then just “goosebumps”. I can not tell relation of energy in the body in Buddha thought so maybe Lal can explain it. You can do just simple exercise to feel energy in the body by moving your attention (as it would be a dot) and looking into your hand. Start to make spiral movements with your intent and thoughts that you move your mind like you would paint on hand with attention. Make spirals from smaller to higher and back to the point zero counterclockwise and clockwise. You must move back to the point zero or you can create problems with your blood flow or nervous system in that place. As you can experience our mind affecting something “invisible”. So we can imagine how bad thoughts and kamma can make some changes on that level which we are not even aware in our everyday life.
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Upekkha100 said: “These bodily sensations only come during formal meditation right? “
It is possible that one could feel these bodily sensations outside formal meditation sessions. Formal sessions are helpful to get one’s mind to be focused. But if the javana power is strong enough one can feel the effects any time.
This is quite clear from the cases 1 through 3 you listed. It is the “inner feeling” or “how strongly one feels” that matters. This is why just reciting verses is not effective. One must understand the embedded idea and must feel it too.
The following is an extreme case, but conveys the idea: It is said that one could get into jhana in a split second, when one gets really good at it. And that can be done in any of the four postures: sitting, standing, walking, lying down.
– I don’t like to discuss these too much, because these could distract people from following the Path to attain magga phala, which is THE foremost goal. So, we should not focus on these “effects”.
– On the other hand, one MUST BE aware that “bodily sensations” COULD occur, and that those are natural.A more mundane example: We have heard reports of people doing rather difficult tasks under unusual conditions. I once heard a report where a small-made woman lifted the side of a car to rescue her child. Of course, she was unable to repeat it under normal conditions.
Christian said: “Goosebumps are not related to the spiritual process”.
I am not sure what you mean by “spiritual processes”. There is nothing mystic about what upekkha is experiencing, as I explained with that last example. What upekkha is experiencing is not that different from what that lady was able to experience.
– Even jhana are not mystic processes. It is just that most of us are not aware of the full capabilities of the mind.Furthermore, experiences are highly personal. What one person may experience may not be experienced by another person. That person may experience a different effect. Some people even experience “pressures”, “tingling sensations”, or even temporary discomforts; see, #15 of “Can Buddhist Meditation be Dangerous?“.
-Some people may not feel any “bodily feelings” and may get to magga phala. It is highly personal. -
“It is the “inner feeling” or “how strongly one feels” that matters. This is why just reciting verses is not effective. One must understand the embedded idea and must feel it too.”
This is just how it is with me. Nothing formal, no set procedures, no plan whatsoever. First the idea (of compassion, or the determination to transfer merits for instance) then follow the thought-words to ‘develop’ that in the mind, then that is transformed into feeling and lastly going deeper into the feeling until I’hit rock bottom’. Then I know it is done. I do not set out to follow that ‘plan’ either, it is not a plan – only the initial idea is determined upon, the sequence follows of itself.
There are no body sensations, only emotional ones. The only time I felt needle-pricks in the scalp, or a tingling sensation there was on first coming upon Puredhamma.
Metta to all.
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