Gati and Family

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    • #45814
      Jittananto
      Participant

      A question came to my mind. We are reborn where our gati are the strong, right? But how in a family do we see a child so different from the rest? I will discuss my personal examples. I am the only Buddhist in a Christian family. Even before I became attracted by the Dhamma, I had respect for the Lord Buddha even when I didn’t believe in his message in the past. My interest in the Dhamma started at the age of 17 years old. I am 22 years old now !! Slowly the Dhamma weakened and removed many miccha ditthi in my mind and changed my vision of the world (We all know they are completely destroyed in the sotāpanna stage). I am 100% sure I am not a sotāpanna. In the beginning, I was a Mahayana Buddhist, but after much research, I quit the Mahayana for the Theravada. I even became a monk for a few weeks in Thailand. ( I also plan to take the robes temporarily again the next time) After that, I found puredhamma and this site reinforced my faith and comprehension in the Buddha dhamma and reduced other miccha ditthi. Of course, some doubts remain until the Sotapanna stage. Some monks told me to do not be worried about that. The real faith begins in the Sotapanna stage. As ordinary humans we can just feed that faith and reduce micca ditthi until they are completely destroyed in Sotapanna stage. But thanks to the Dhamma, I didn’t see other religions or beliefs that can bring a real happiness. They have a lot of incoherence. My family is against the vision of the world of the Buddha. They also try to stop me the last years when I go to Thailand to ordain as a monk without success !! Their beliefs in a God are strong. My father is a pastor. My family doesn’t totally reject the concept of reincarnation; they think it exists only for some special people chosen by God.  The rest of humans go to heaven or hell. Nibbāna is really nonsensical for them. They also think I am lost and foolish to reject an eternal God to believe in a man who died 25 centuries ago !!! 

       

      My question is, why I wasn’t born to a Buddhist family, since I have this gati? We know that kamma is extremely difficult to explain (only a Lord Buddha can), but most of the time is rare for a human to change his beliefs like that right? Especially in this period when the Buddha Dhamma is in decline with many wrong interpretations.

    • #45817
      Lal
      Keymaster

      It is correct that, in general, births are according to one’s gati

      1. One possibility is that you probably did not have the “Buddhist gati” at the time of your birth.

      • It is possible that something happened around age 17 to change your gati.
      • There are others too who are born into one religion but adopt another later in their lives. Some life events can change one’s destiny! 

      2. Another possibility is that you may have had “Buddhist gati” at the time of your birth, but a strong kamma vipaka overcame that effect. 

      3. A third possibility is that even though your “Buddhist gati” did not match the family, there may have been another strong gati that did match!

      As you wrote, these are complex issues.

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    • #45819
      Jittananto
      Participant

       

      Yes Sir Lal in the first possibility around my 17 i was confronting at the suffering of a teenager like a break up. That experience make me thinking alot why i suffer for this? If i remember well i was thinking unconsciouly about the annica nature. Yesterdays i was happy with this person today we are separate. The thing not remain the same. They are changing. Of course at this time i use the banal signification of annica. After that i start to read and i came accross Buddha’s biography. That was the beginning of this.

      For the second possibility that can be  the anusaya of micca dithi ?? I heard about some people had different type of anusaya who are predominant. Some had sensual pleasure, micca ditthi, anger  etc..

       

      So sir in the third possibility if i understand well we can have many Gati at the same time??

    • #45820
      Lal
      Keymaster

      1. As I understand, you experienced a relationship breakup at the age of 17. Yes. That could have made you subconsciously think about the “anicca nature.” 

      2. Regarding this possibility: Yes. You could have had “Buddhist gati” to some extent at the time of birth, but it could have been “overtaken” by strong miccha ditthi anusaya.

      3. Yes. One can have many gati. There can be “lobha gati,” “dosa gati,” “gati for liking a certain sport,” “gati to be attracted to a certain political view,” etc. 

      • However, the Buddha described only five broad categories of gati that lead to five broad categories of rebirth: Hell (niraya), the animal realm, the ghost realm, the human realm (manussa,) and the Deva realms. Here the six Deva realms and the higher Brahma realms are collectively called the “Deva realm.”
      • All types of gati fall into one of those five “major gati.
      • See “Gati Sutta (AN 9.68).” The translator does not understand “gati,” but in this case, the title gives the correct idea.
      • Those gati are removed gradually as one progresses on the Noble Path. An Arahant would have no gati left.
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    • #45822
      Jittananto
      Participant

      Thank you for the explanations Sir Lal 🙏🏿. I guess in this context when you said an arahant remove all gati that mean he end the cycle or rebirth who lead to the 5 realm. But in other case we see in the sutta some arahant had little gati right ? Like talk in a inapropriate way to other or jumping above puddle. Only a Lord Buddha had remove all idiosyncrasy if i understand well.

    • #45824
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Yes. Some gati (habits) do not have associated defilements. Arahants may have those.

       

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