February 26, 2021 at 8:23 am #33653AnonymousInactive
Hi, after reading and rereading a lot of the posts related to the 10 wrong views and anicca, dukkha and anatta I have been considering these things in terms of my life and general experience. Anyway, I was thinking about how various memories related to the quality of anicca and I started thinking about it in relation to video games or something. I had this realization that the more I acted on craving for things in the world throughout my life, the more suffering I directly made for myself. I envisioned it as a poison cloud that I make when craving things.
Now whenever I feel myself craving something, and especially if I allow myself to think thoughts related to it, I feel pain instead of whatever it felt like before. Is this magga phala? It’s hard to tell if I’ve had a permanent increase in Nirāmisa Sukha as detailed in that chart, but I haven’t stopped consciously experiencing it since a few days ago. Also, the post on how to tell if one is a Sotapanna says that one should see the way to Nibanna. I don’t know if I see that, only that whenever I act on craving it causes pain.
February 26, 2021 at 9:35 am #33655LalKeymaster
You seem to have personally experienced the stress caused by “pleasurable activities” such as playing video games.
– That is a good start.
– Keep learning Dhamma and things will become more clear.
– When one gets to the Sotapanna stage, one’s mind will get to a “peaceful state.” It is not a sudden drop but is a gradual reduction.
First, when one starts seeing the root causes of stress as cravings, one would gradually start losing those cravings for playing video games, watching useless movies, etc.
– With time, one would feel the relief. That provides the confidence to learn more.
– We have the wrong view/perception that those mind-pleasing activities are good for us. It is not that different when a fish bites into a tasty bait. The fish does not see the dangers there.
February 26, 2021 at 9:53 am #33656AnonymousInactive
Hi Lal, thank you for the response. You’re completely right, the optimal decision no matter where I am on the path is to continue learning. Thank you for this website by the way, I’ve been “studying” Buddhism for a few years but nothing has ever been as clear as what’s presented here.
February 28, 2021 at 5:08 am #33661LalKeymaster
The following post is from TripleGemStudent:
“Now whenever I feel myself craving something, and especially if I allow myself to think thoughts related to it, I feel pain instead of whatever it felt like before. Is this magga phala?”
I went through a similar experience but a little bit different. In this world, no one can tell if another person attained magga phala or not besides the Buddha or that person themselves. In addition to what you’re learning here from the puredhamma website, I recommend you to also check out these video’s for additional teachings on Sotapanna’s.
“Also the post on how to tell if one is a Sotapanna says that one should see the way to Nibanna. I don’t know if I see that, only that whenever I act on craving it causes pain.”
It is taught that one of the things that Sotapanna’s sees/knows the world as/is Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta and sees/knows Nibbana as/is nicca, sukha, atta.
In regards to why you are feeling pain when you’re craving for something, the Buddha dhamma Paticca Samuppada is one of the teachings that can give you some answers. Hint: Paticca Samuppada cycles. As well have you understood the four noble truths correctly? Let me know if you are able to figure this out or what answers you came up with own understanding/knowing/seeing of the Buddha Dhamma
Something to keep in mind, it is taught that when one is trying to understand/see dukkha, it should not be through vedana/feeling, but with wisdom.
March 4, 2021 at 1:43 pm #33784TripleGemStudentParticipant
“Now whenever I feel myself craving something, and especially if I allow myself to think thoughts related to it, I feel pain instead of whatever it felt like before. ”
I went through a similar experience, but instead of pain, I felt more of a “depressed” vedana. Even though I wasn’t depressed, but that’s the best way I can describe what I felt.
From what I can diagnose of what happened was that a part of me deep down inside knows this world to be Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta, but because I’m so used to going behind kama raga, another part of me didn’t want to let go. So one part of my gati knows going behind this world is Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta, but another part of my gati (been with me since Sansara) didn’t/doesn’t want to let go of these assada’s. So I was kinda fighting/battling within myself.
During this process, I was probably activating the Akusala-Mula P.S. and that’s probably why I felt this “depressed” vedana. So if one is feeling “pain” or some form of dukkha while one is craving for something, it’s quite possible that one still has avija/moha or tanha for what one is craving for or had activated the Akusala-Mula P.S.
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