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Understanding
The newest thing about me while learning Pure Dhamma was explaining the memory process in detail. The infinite, eternal, and non-local preservation of information without extra energy revolutionized my thinking. There is no need for energy to remain anidassana/appaṭigha nāma. In contrast, every sankhata needs energy to maintain itself.
We can tell sankhata is information in a way. For example, a pencil contains not only the basic information that there is it but also information on how rubber, coal, and wood became pencils. Over time, the physical preservation of such information becomes impossible. However, mental information(pancakkhanda)is eternal.
It means there are two different types of information. The first type is sankhata, the first information. The second type is namagotta, the meta information. If the former is the information that there was a pencil there, the latter is the information that I saw that there was a pencil there.
The first type of information is not stored forever. But the second type is. It means the mind can generate meta-information, which is infinite and eternal.
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Practical application
The meta-information is infinite and eternal. It means that all the happiness in samsara is not new for me. Every kind of it has already been experienced. If I choose to continue the rebirth process, it’s not new at all because it’s the choice I made before already. But if I decide to stop the rebirth process, it is new. So the only new thing that can be done is the complete elimination of defilement.
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There are three layers of suffering: dukkha dukkha, viparinama dukkha, and sankhara dukkha.
I arranged them in deep order.
The first step is to understand the law of kamma.
The punna(good) kamma can give us happiness(good vipaka).
The akusala(bad) kamma can give us suffering(bad vipaka).
So we can see that the suffering is due to the bad kamma.
It means you’ll pay for what you do, good or bad.
But we don’t need Buddha Dhamma to know it.
The second step is to understand mortality.
Everything born must die one day.
Naked we come into the world, and naked we leave it.
No matter how good it is, it will be over one day.
But we don’t need Buddha Dhamma to know it, either.
The third step is to understand the danger of samsara.
When we understand sankhara dukkha, we understand how to chunk the two previous dukkha.
We suffer when we make an effort inconsistent with nature’s laws. (dukkha dukkha)
For example, they believe that evil can cause happiness, that they can achieve happiness without providing the right conditions, or that an inappropriate way is appropriate.
It is linked to ‘aññathā(unexpected change of sankhata)’. (aññathattaṁ saṅkhatalakkhaṇa)
Unpredictable changes make it difficult to grasp the conditions that must be prepared to achieve happiness.
This creates a time gap between happiness and effort.
Efforts to narrow this gap forcefully harm other beings(akusala kamma).
And someday, it gives us bad vipaka.
Therefore, all efforts inconsistent with the laws of nature must lead to suffering.
Furthermore, we suffer when we make an effort consistent with nature’s laws too. (viparinama dukkha)
Even if we do all good deeds and birth in the good realms, we can’t help ourselves from running up against death. (vayo saṅkhatalakkhaṇa)
So, all efforts consistent with the laws of nature must lead to suffering.
This is a dead-end ally in samsara. As long as we think that the choice to continue samsara is a good thing, we must meet it.
As long as you try to find happiness in samsara, there must be suffering. (sankhara dukkha)
This is the essence of Buddha Dhamma.
That is why the sankhara dukkha is “the great danger“
Ne 5 “tasmā saṅkhāradukkhatā dukkhaṁ lokassāti katvā dukkhamassa mahabbhayanti”
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Excellent.
1. The last verse captures the essence. “Bhaya” is ‘danger,” and “mahabbhaya” (mahā + bhaya) is “great danger.”
2. An average human perceives the cultivation of (abhi)saṅkhāra as “pleasure.” An extreme example is raping a woman seeking sensory gratification. That involves vaci (planning/thinking) and kaya (implementing) abhisankhara. It could be enjoyable at that time.
- However, he will pay for that brief gratification for millions of years. Unimaginable but true!
- That is “the great danger.”
P. S.
3. It is a good idea to gradually contemplate the danger of even excessive sensory pleasures (such as craving tasty foods, music, etc.) See “Son’s Flesh” which is the translation of the “Puttamaṁsa Sutta (SN 12.63).”
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+) If one makes sankhara, it makes sankhata: manomaya kaya, dhamma rupa, etc. (uppada)
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Lal, I think the above analysis might enhance the value of the post Introduction -2 – The Three Categories of Suffering with compactness. How about using it?
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Good idea. Thank you!
I added the following to the post:
13. The “Vicayahāravibhaṅga” in the Petakopadesa states the following: “Saṅkhāradukkhatāya pana loko anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā muccati, tasmā saṅkhāradukkhatā dukkhaṁ lokassāti katvā dukkhamassa mahabbhayanti.”
- The meaning is “If saṅkhāra-dukkha can be overcome, one will get to Nibbāna. Therefore, saṅkhāra-dukkha is the one with great danger (mahabbhaya or mahā + bhaya.)”
- An average human perceives the cultivation of (abhi)saṅkhāra as “pleasure.” An extreme example is raping a woman seeking sensory gratification. That involves vaci (planning/thinking) and kāya (implementing) abhisaṅkhāra. It could be enjoyable at that time. However, he will pay for that brief gratification for millions of years. Unimaginable but true!
- Thus, any such “pleasure” is short-lived (vipariṇāma dukkha) and will bring unimaginable dukkha-dukkha in the future. One must “see” the “hidden suffering in sensory pleasures” before getting to the Sotapanna stage.
- Until then, humans see the cultivation of (abhi)saṅkhāra as “pleasure.”
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Ragakkhayo Nibbanan.
There are three types of raga: kama raga, rupa raga, arupa raga.
To put it simply, PS describes how raga turns into kaya.
If you have yet kama raga, you will be born in kama loka. (Kama kaya)
Samely, rupa and arupa raga gives you (a)rupavacara kaya.
So, the continuation of samsara is to continue with getting kaya.
As long as someone thinks kaya is a good thing(have raga), the creation of kaya doesn’t stop.
Sakkaya ditthi is sath + kaya. So put together, it means samsara is good for oneself.
Kaya comes from raga. Ragakkhayo is the end of kaya. That is why there is no kaya in Nibbana.
Also, if there is no kaya(manomaya), there can not be citta too. So, there is no citta or cetasika in Nibbana.
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Sakkaya ditthi can also be analyzed as “sa + kaya” or “my + kaya.”
- But it is neither mine nor someone else’s. It arises due to causes and conditions (Paticca Samuppada.)
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Many suttas explain that “this body is not yours; not someone else’s either.” It is a “hetu/phala.”
See, for example, “Natumha Sutta (SN 12.37).”
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“Is this “pleasure” also described by the word Assāda, as in Assāda, Ādīnava, Nissarana?”
Yes. That is indeed the critical point.
- Buddha never denied that there are “pleasurable things” in this world. That is why beings are trapped in the rebirth process. They look at only the “immediate gratification” (Assāda) offered by sensory pleasures.
- The “previously unheard teachings of the Buddha” is that those “pleasurable things” have “hidden suffering” (Ādīnava.)
- When one comprehends the Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana, one can see how such Assāda leads to Ādīnava. See “Understanding the Terms in Paṭicca Samuppāda.”
- That is when one becomes a Sotapanna/Sotapanna Anugami and starts striving for Nissarna, which means “stop traveling the rebirth process.”
- There is a series of posts on “Assāda, Ādīnava, Nissarana.”
See, for example, “Baḷisa Sutta (SN 17.2),” where the Buddha compared those who have not comprehended Buddha Dhamma to a fish who only sees the bait as “pleasure.” They do not see the “hidden suffering” in sensory pleasures. Until they see it, they will be trapped in the rebirth process (samsara.)
- In that sutta, the Buddha compared sensory pleasures to “Māra’s hook.”
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Do I Have “A Mind” That Is Fixed and “Mine”?
8. When an EM wave (kiraṇa) packet arrives at the cakkhu pasāda, it hits the hadaya vatthu and “transfers” that visual information about the tree to the mind. The mind is born momentarily during this transition for the duration of that signal.
This is what is meant by “cakkhunca Paṭicca rupeca uppajjāti cakkhu viññānam.”
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In that context, “cakkhunca Paṭicca rupeca uppajjāti cakkhu viññānam.” shows how to be aware world by indriya.
But when we see with san, it shows how to be aware world by ayatana.
The cakkhu become cakkayatana and rupa become rupayatana.
For example, two people with different tastes read the same book.
John didn’t like what the main character did at the end. But Mary thought it was the best ending.
They both read the same letters, but they took them differently.
So, in this case, we can say that they’re not looking at the same thing.
This is why rupa ayatana is all personal and mental.
It is made by the mind and reflects one’s personal preferences(gati, anusaya).
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There are three fetters: sakkaya ditthi, silabbata paramasa, and vicikicca.
Each of those are not knowing how to deal with correctly raga, dosa, and moha.
Sakkaya ditthi is the false belief that the consequent pleasure from having raga can be meaningful in some way.
“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”
“Everything will be Okay.”
These words are good example of sakkaya ditthi.
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There are three groups in the 10 punna kamma: Dana, Sila, and Bhavana.
Sila group helps to remove dosa and cultivate adosa.
But Anariya hasn’t removed silabbata paramasa yet, i.e. they couldn’t see the essence of morality, their sila is not permanent.
Instead, Ariya saw the essence of morality so silabbata paramasa is gone.
Then what is the essence of morality?
How I treat a living being determines how nature treats me as a living being.
AND, there is no right reason to harm other beings.
Because nothing is more precious than life.
One may think like this. “I can swear at him because he broke my stuff, because my stuff is precious.”
But, nothing is more precious than life.
The point is that as long as someone has sakkaya ditthi, one day they put something else on life.
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What should I know more broadly? What more information should I collect?
These questions have nothing to do with understanding the nature of the suffering.
One should purify one’s mind. What we should do and need to do is that. And it alone is enough to attain Nibbana.
Until one really comes to this conclusion, one still has vicikicca.
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Think about 10 samyojanas.
Those can be chunked in three categories.
Raga categories
- sakkaya ditthi
- kama raga
- rupa raga
- arupa raga
- mana
Dosa categories
- silabbata paramasa
- patigha
- uddacca
Moha categories
- vicikicca
- avijja
And we can also see that the first item of each list means not knowing how to do ragakkhayo dosakkhayo mohakkhayo, and the rest items mean not doing enough.
That’s why sotapanna knows the map to the nibbana. Ragakkhayo dosakkhayo and mohakkhayo cover all of the bhavana!
So we should deal with raga by asubha, dosa by metta, moha by panna.
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“Sakkaya ditthi is the false belief that the consequent pleasure from having raga can be meaningful in some way.”
- To be more precise Sakkaya ditthi is the belief in personality. It can take two forms: Sassatta ditthi the belief in an eternal self that will end in a higher or lower realm forever. Present in most religions. The other is uccheda ditthi the belief in a self that is annihilated at death. Sakkaya ditthi can take many forms. However, this belief can say that there is a self that must enjoy sensual pleasures, (Kāma ragā)
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1. Those ideas (Dosakkhayo‘s) about sakkaya ditthi are good but mostly mundane.
- At the root level, sakkaya ditthi means the view that “pursuing worldly things can bring happiness.”
- Once one can see the “big picture of the Buddha” that spans over the rebirth process and the fact that a “suffering-free mind” is hidden under layers of defilements, that view will be eliminated. Sakkaya ditthi will disappear, and the tendency to pursue worldly things will diminish when one comprehends that.
- I have been discussing that in recent posts and tried to summarize it in the latest post: “Ārammaṇa (Sensory Input) Initiates Critical Processes.”
2. Silabba Paramasa
- I may not have discussed “silabbata paramasa” sufficiently.
- “Paramasa” means a “conviction” that some way of doing things can DEFINITELY get one to the goal.
- When the goal is to attain Nibbana, “silabbata paramasa” means “following a specific set of precepts/rituals” can get one there. However, while moral conduct is necessary to attain Nibbana, it is NOT sufficient. Nibbana is attained by cultivating wisdom (panna), and morality is a necessary CONDITION.
3. The various categories of “conditions to attain Nibbana” (seven types of anusaya, ten samyojana, four yogā, four Asava, etc) are discussed in the post “Conditions for the Four Stages of Nibbāna.” To categorize into raga, dosa, moha would be as follows:
Raga categories:
- kama raga
- rupa raga
- arupa raga
Dosa categories:
- patigha
- uddacca
Moha categories:
- sakkaya ditthi
- vicikicca
- silabbata paramasa
- mana
- avijja
Under the moha category, sakkaya ditthi, vicikicca, and silabbata paramasa are ditthi (wrong views). Mana (the idea of “me/myself”) and avijja arise due to avijja. Uddacca (“unsettled mind”) could be categorized under avijja or dosa.
- Of course, everything will eventually be due to avijja!
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I thought about it for a week. And I found out that I was wrong. It meant a lot to me, in a good way. I appreciate your correction.
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I understand that a sotāpanna is said to have eradicated sakkaya ditthi. However, even though a sotāpanna has achieved this, he can still have a strong attachment to kāma ragā. This attachment depends on his gāti, and he may continue to pursue the things of this world. However, he will never commit evil acts to acquire them. I have been considering that belief in the personality might be more appropriate since it eradicates all micchādiṭṭhi. If I have made any mistakes, please correct me. I am still transitioning and learning about many Dhamma concepts that I previously understood in a worldly way. Most of my statements are based on what I learned before I encountered the Puredhamma site. Thank you for sharing the essay Dosakkhayo; it has highlighted my gaps in certain concepts.
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This is an example of a publication on Sakkaya ditthi.
SAKKAYA DITTHI: SELF-IDENTIFICATION VIEW IN THERAVADA BUDDHISM
Sakkaya ditthi is the wrong view that mistakenly identifies with one of the five aggregates of clinging that constitute the Psycho-physical complex described as a being or personality as “self”.
There are three possible ways in which self-identification can take place.
This is mine – due to craving (tanha)
This I am – due to conceit (mana)
This is me – due to the wrong view (ditthi)
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Gad wrote: “Sakkaya ditthi is the wrong view that mistakenly identifies with one of the five aggregates of clinging that constitute the Psycho-physical complex described as a being or personality as “self”.”
- So, a Sotapanna does not have the sense of a “me”? Would not consider the house, car, or anything else as his?
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No, he still has this wrong perception but he will never fall into the views related to Sakkaya ditthi.
In the Duthiya Isidatta sutta of the Samyutta Nikaya, it is stated that various other wrong views and the sixty-two wrong views described in the Brahmajala sutta arise due to the presence of sakkaya ditthi and that they do not arise when there is no sakkaya ditthi. The ten other wrong views described in the Duthiya Isidatta sutta are;
The world is eternal.
The world is not eternal.
The world is finite.
The world is not finite.
The soul and the body are the same.
The soul and the body are not the same.
One exists after death.
One does not exist after death.
One both exists and does not exist after death.
One neither exists nor does not exist after death (6).
I believe it is this aspect of Sakkaya ditthi that a sotāpanna has eliminated, right?
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You are still quoting standard phrases: “No, he still has this wrong perception but he will never fall into the views related to Sakkaya ditthi.” That does not say anything about the meaning of “sakkaya ditthi.” I asked a couple of direct questions above.
- What do you understand by “sakkaya ditthi“? If you can explain in your own words, I can comment.
- I am not trying to “get you.” If you genuinely want to learn Dhamma, you need to try to understand what you don’t know. If you don’t want to answer, that is fine.
One problem I have is that I don’t know how much of what I write people understand. I can write many posts, but if I am not addressing issues that people don’t understand, then it is a waste of time.
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Certainly, Sir, I will answer your question. As I mentioned earlier, there are still many concepts that I am processing. Sakkaya ditthi refers to the belief in an unchanging and permanent soul, which can be controlled and passed on from one life to another or can perish with the body depending on the ditthi. A sotāpanna has eliminated these views, but the perception of self still lingers like a bad smell on a washed cloth. It is only at the arahant stage that the perception of self is eliminated. This is the summary of what I learned, sir. Please explain what I misunderstood.
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Excellent.
- You wrote: “Sakkaya ditthi refers to the belief in an unchanging and permanent soul, which can be controlled and passed on from one life to another or can perish with the body depending on the ditthi. A sotāpanna has eliminated these views, but the perception of self still lingers like a bad smell on a washed cloth.”
- That is the explanation I was looking for.
There are three related concepts that the Buddha taught.
- A puthujjana attaches to things with mana (or asmi mana), tanha, and ditthi, in that order. All three arise based on the “distorted sanna” that is built-in to ALL births via Paticca Samuppada.
- Asmi mana is the “sense of self or me,” which is the “deepest layer.” That is eliminated at the Arahant stage.
- Next is tanha (in the form of kama raga, rupa raga, and arupa raga, which value existences in kama, rupa, and arupa loka.) Here, kama raga is removed at the Anagami stage. Rupa raga and arupa raga are removed while on the Arahant magga, i.e., after attaining the Anagami stage.
- The outermost layer is “sakkaya ditthi.” That is the VIEW that worldly things have kama guna and thus can bring happiness. That is the first layer of ignorance to be removed at the Sotapanna stage
They are summarized in the verse: “etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti.” It is discussed in the post “Etaṁ Mama, Esohamasmi, Eso Me Attā’ti – What Does It Mean?”
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Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this to me, sir. I have to reread it to make sure I get it right. As I said there are many concepts in transition in my mind that I used to understand in a worldly way.
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Ditthi asava is defined in the Vibhanga as follows:
Vb17 215.1
Tattha katamo diṭṭhāsavo? “Sassato loko”ti vā, “asassato loko”ti vā, “antavā loko”ti vā, “anantavā loko”ti vā, “taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran”ti vā, “aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran”ti vā, “hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā. Yā evarūpā diṭṭhi diṭṭhigataṁ …pe… vipariyāsaggāho—ayaṁ vuccati “diṭṭhāsavo”.
Sabbāpi micchādiṭṭhi diṭṭhāsavo.The above phrases are exactly the same thing as dasavatthukā antaggāhikā diṭṭhi.
Vb17 321.1
Tattha katamā dasavatthukā antaggāhikā diṭṭhi? Sassato lokoti vā, asassato lokoti vā, antavā lokoti vā, anantavā lokoti vā, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīranti vā, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīranti vā, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā—ayaṁ dasavatthukā antaggāhikā diṭṭhi.These ten items can be classified into three categories as shown below.
Loka
- sassato loko
- asassato loko
- antavā loko
- anantavā loko
Jiva
- taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran
- aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran
Nibbana
- hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇa
- na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇa
- hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇa
- neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇa
Thus, ditthi asava can be considered as wrong views regarding loka, jiva, and nibbana.
Someone being a Sotapanna means that they have eradicated ditthi asava.
That is, they have correct views regarding loka, jiva, and nibbana.
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The ten items of antaggahika ditthi are also statements about the abyakata topic.
“kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sassato loko”ti?
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, vaccha, mayā: ‘sassato loko’ti …pe….
“Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti?
“Etampi kho, vaccha, abyākataṁ mayā: ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
So what is the resolution of the abyakata issue for someone who is a sotapanna?
The answer is discussed in the Kiṁdiṭṭhika sutta. AN 10.93
This sutta involves Anāthapiṇḍika debating with those who hold abyakata views.
The noteworthy point is that the correct response to the ten antaggahika ditthi, such as sassato loko or asassato loko, appears in the following phrase.
14.1 “Yaṁ kho, bhante, kiñci bhūtaṁ saṅkhataṁ cetayitaṁ paṭiccasamuppannaṁ tadaniccaṁ. Yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ. ‘Yaṁ dukkhaṁ taṁ netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, nameso attā’ti—evametaṁ yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ. Tassa ca uttari nissaraṇaṁ yathābhūtaṁ pajānāmī”ti.
From this tipitaka reference, it can be understood that the phrase “Yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ. ‘Yaṁ dukkhaṁ taṁ netaṁ mama, nesohamasmi, nameso attā’ti” is sufficient to convey correct understanding regarding loka, jiva, and nibbana.
Therefore, merely pointing out impermanence is not sufficient to explain anicca. Because you can’t learn about loka, jiva, and nibbana properly with just such an explanation. By the same logic, it is also incorrect to understand anatta as not-self.
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Yes. The concepts of anicca and anatta embed the critical idea that craving things in this world only leads to suffering.
- Nibbana (Arahanthood) is the end of suffering. It is not the end of a human, a Deva, an animal, or a Brahma; suffering continues as long as one of those labels can be assigned. A Buddha or an Arahant does not belong to any of those categories.
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Phassa can be divided into neutral phassa and contaminated samphassa. Neutral phassa can only be experienced through indriya. With Abhidhamma, we can deal with this in finer level. Because Abhidhamma is a tool that explains all the details about everything. Let me give an example.
“When the eyes capture an image of a tree, that image is processed by the brain and then passed along to the cakkhu pasāda rūpa, which is in the mental body or manōmaya kāya. In the case of a human or an animal, manōmaya kāya is the same as gandhabba.”
The above sentence is quoted from #7 of Contact Between Āyatana Leads to Vipāka Viññāna. Let me connect the above process with a neutral phassa and explain it in more detail.
The definition of phassa is a contact between external rupa and internal rupa. Therefore, it is not actually the tree that comes into contact with the eye, but rather the information about the tree’s shape that enters the physical eye through light. This information is then converted by the brain into data that the pasada rupa can read. This data flows to the pasada rupa via kirana wave, and it is precisely this very subtle bundle of information, as an energy wave, that contacts the internal rupa as an external rupa. In other words, when considering the collision process between the external rupa and the internal rupa, we can see that the external rupa that collides with the pasada rupa is also just suddhatthaka. This implies that the phassa occurring through neutral indriya is an Abhidhammic process.
From these observations, we can understand that external rupa and external ayatana are fundamentally different. This is because external rupa belongs to rupa in the paramattha dhamma, while external ayatana belongs to nama. Therefore, the two cannot be interchanged.
I understand up to this point. If there are any mistakes in what I have written so far, I would appreciate it if you could point them out.
I cautiously speculate that phassa arising from indriya might not be discussed at all in Paticca Samuppada. This is because what was previously known as neutral PS, Abyakata PS, was actually explaining the minor kamma generation process known as purana kamma.
In fact, neutral phassa can only be explained in abhidhamma, not in PS. This is because all terms in PS are related to the contamination or purification of the mind. Since phassa of indriya is unrelated to both of them, it has little relevance to PS.
However, this does not mean that there are things in the world that PS does not explain. It simply means that neutral phassa through indriya is in a different subject from dukkha samudaya or dukkha nirodha. It’s more like just calculating, rather than contemplating.
The statement “sun is not a planet” is astronomically true. And “the sun is anicca” is a Dhammically true statement. Both are true and they’re talking about the sun, but astronomy is not Buddha Dhamma. The same logic applies here. (Of course, Abhidhamma IS Buddha Dhamma.) That’s the reason even if one is good at Abhidhamma, they may not have gotten any magga phala.
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Yes. Your summary is good.
You wrote: “I cautiously speculate that phassa arising from indriya might not be discussed at all in Paticca Samuppada.”
- That is correct. Phassa and samphassa are entirely different.
- Phassa is a cetasika that arises in ALL cittas. In contrast, samphassa means “defiled sensory contact,” which appears in Paticca Samuppada.
- Possible confusion arises due to the uddesa (brief) version of Paticca Samuppada: “salayatana paccaya phassa.” That really means “salayatana paccaya samphassa.”
- See “Difference between Phassa and Samphassa.”
You wrote: “The statement “the sun is not a planet” is astronomically true. And “the sun is anicca” is a Dhammically true statement. Both are true and they’re talking about the sun, but astronomy is not Buddha Dhamma. The same logic applies here. (Of course, Abhidhamma IS Buddha Dhamma.) That’s the reason even if one is good at Abhidhamma, they may not have gotten any magga phala.”
- That is quite true. Some people know how to recite Abhidhamma, but have not fully comprehended the ideas. My goal is to try to explain Abhidhamma concepts in simple language.
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I think the data flow is like this, using sight as an example:
External rupa –> physical eyes –> brain –> pasada rupa –> hadaya vatthu (which vibrates 17 times that make up a citta vithi)
Phassa actually happens at the pasada rupa –> hadaya vatthu, correct? If it is samphassa, then the cittā that arise are contaminated (in 9 stages I believe); and if it’s a neutral phassa then the cittā that arise are not contaminated, such as cittā of an arahant.
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Cubibobi asked: “Phassa actually happens at the pasada rupa –> hadaya vatthu, correct?”
- Yes.
- Good explanation. “Phassa ” takes place at the initial sensory contact. “Samphassa” happens in response to that sensory contact (if the mind attaches to that sensory input.)
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The following essay is from Dosakkhayo:
I’ve been contemplating the connection between the Abhidhamma and Paticca Samuppada.I wonder if the relationship between “sankhara paccaya vinnana” and “vinnana paccaya namarupa” might be describing the javana citta from different perspectives.“Sankhara paccaya vinnana” seems to explain the cumulative effect of the javana citta, while “vinnana paccaya namarupa” describes the formation of the results of the javana citta.So, “vinnana paccaya namarupa” deals with Tadarammana citta.If a person becomes more attached to a given arammana, they will generate more citta vithi, feeding namarupa.I have illustrated this in a diagram with draw.io.Figure 1:
Figure 2:
In Figure 1, the weakening of the sixth javana citta is not reflected.This is because it is a rule specific to the javana citta itself, not in the context of “sankhara paccaya vinnana.”The “sankhara paccaya vinnana” illustrates that more abhisankhara leads to the growth of a stronger kamma vinnana.Therefore, both “sankhara paccaya vinnana” and “vinnana paccaya namarupa” deal with the javana citta in different contexts.It’s similar to the relationship between hours and minutes: both describe time, but each deals with different units.If there are any mistakes, I would appreciate it if you could point them out. Thank you. -
Thank you for the essay, Dosakkhayo.
- Because of my travel schedule, I do not have time to comment properly, but the following are some key points.
1. Your description of a pancadvara citta vithi followed by three manodvara citta vithi is correct.
2. The whole PS process runs within EACH javana citta, i.e., “avijja paccaya sankhara” to the end.
3. In subsequent javana cittas, all relevant terms grow in strength. For example, vinnana, namarupa, etc, grow in strength. Furthermore, those changes are taken into account in Tadarammana (T) at the end of each javana series.
The real-time PS process is discussed in the following section: “Paṭicca Samuppāda During a Lifetime.”
The changes in Tadarammana (T) are discussed in the posts here: “Search Results for: temporary bhavaṅga state.”
- For the kind of analysis you did, it is necessary to understand the concept of a “temporary bhavaṅga state.” As more citta vithi run, the mindset (T) changes with the flow of javana citta.
You can ask questions as you read those posts. Take your time, and don’t rush. It takes time to absorb some of these concepts.
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I summarized what I thought about mundane samma ditthi.
This is the list of ten types mundane samma ditthi.
1. atthi dinnaṁ
2. atthi yiṭṭhaṁ
3. atthi hutaṁ
4. atthi sukatadukkaṭānaṁ kammānaṁ phalaṁ vipāko
5. atthi ayaṁ loko
6. atthi paro loko
7. atthi mātā
8. atthi pitā
9. atthi sattā opapātikā
10. atthi loke samaṇabrāhmaṇā sammaggatā sammāpaṭipannā, ye imañca lokaṁ parañca lokaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā pavedentīI have categorized it into three as follows:
### Kamma
The 1st, 2nd, and 4th entries deal with kamma.– atthi dinnaṁ
– atthi yiṭṭhaṁ
Punna kamma has three categories: dana, sila, and bhavana. The 1st and 2nd entries represent the two most fundamental moral principles for living beings: giving to others and being grateful for what one has received from others. These two principles generally encompass meritorious actions. (The 4th entry deals with sila and bhavana.)The law of kamma guarantees that good deeds will be rewarded, whether the reward comes immediately or later, when the appropriate conditions (paccaya) are met. This also applies to bad deeds.
Based on this, we can perform good deeds not based on immediate outcomes but on natural moral principles. This understanding allows us to refrain from reacting angrily to seemingly unjust situations, as they are the result of one’s own past bad kamma coming to fruition.
The law of kamma does not follow the typical cause-and-effect analysis derived from observing the sequence of events, which often leads to viewing revenge as justice. However, with mundane samma ditthi, we are not blinded by immediate appearances and can understand the essence of events based on natural moral principles. The notion of implementing justice is an illusion because, from a long-term perspective, justice is always guaranteed (but only with proper conditions).
– atthi sukatadukkaṭānaṁ kammānaṁ phalaṁ vipāko
The 4th entry states that fundamental moral principles are included in natural laws, and the future depends on the choices we make in the present. However, the realization of kamma involves a certain rule called paccaya, and until this condition is fulfilled, the result (vipaka) will not manifest. Thus, we have two types of choices at this stage: choosing what kind of kamma to perform and choosing how to change the conditions (paccaya).It also implies that no one can take responsibility for another person’s actions because no one can perform kamma on behalf of someone else or experience the results (vipaka) of another’s actions. This is the basis of sila and bhavana.
Attā hi attanō nāthō,
One is one’s own refuge,kō hi nāthō parō siyā?
How can another be a refuge to one?### Manomaya Kaya
The 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th entries deal with manomaya kaya.– atthi ayaṁ loko
– atthi paro loko
5th and 6th discuss separate layers for the animal realm and human realm. If there weren’t, there would be no need to differentiate between ayam loko and paro loko. These separate layers imply that the manomaya kaya (mind-made body) can exist independently of the physical body after death. In other words, these entries is about the mechanism by which the manomaya kaya is separated from the physical body.– atthi mātā
– atthi pitā
7th and 8th highlight the special reasons for the existence of mother and father. This is related to the rarity and preciousness of a human manomaya kaya (gandabba) obtaining a physical body. Therefore, the kamma done towards parents is not equal to that done towards ordinary people. Understanding this is equivalent to understanding the mechanism by which the manomaya kaya obtains a physical body.– atthi sattā opapātikā
9th states that the general form of existence for all beings is the manomaya kaya. This has two major implications.First, the scope of life extends beyond mere cellular molecules to levels finer than atoms. Second, the manomaya kaya is the primary body, and the physical body is secondary.
### Purification of Mind
The 3rd and 10th entries deal with the purification of mind– atthi hutaṁ
3rd discusses the relationship between meritorious actions and the level of mind. The purer the recipient’s mind, the greater the merit. This implies that the degree of purity of mind is an important measure in Dhamma. Arahant is the most valuable being in this regard because they have eradicated all defilements. In other words, there is a certain correlation between morality and the level of mind.– atthi loke samaṇabrāhmaṇā sammaggatā sammāpaṭipannā, ye imañca lokaṁ parañca lokaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā pavedentī
10th primarily signifies the existence of monks and Brahmins who can see the rebirth process. This implies that the purer the mind, the better one can understand the world. In fact, iddhi can only be acquired in a state of mind free from akusala, even if temporarily, such as in jhana.In conclusion, someone with mundane samma dithi understands that these three topics are important.
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Hi dosakkhayo great essay !!!🙏🏿
Dosakkhayo : It also implies that no one can take responsibility for another person’s actions because no one can perform kamma on behalf of someone else or experience the results (vipaka) of another’s actions. This is the basis of sila and bhavana.
Me : Does that mean that it is useless to perform good deeds and transfer them to apaya beings like petas (hungry ghosts) in order to alleviate their suffering?
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Thank Jittananto!
Jittananto: Does that mean that it is useless to perform good deeds and transfer them to apaya beings like petas (hungry ghosts) in order to alleviate their suffering?
Me: No. If a peta receives transferred merit, it means that the conditions for the manifestation of that peta’s past kamma have been met. Therefore, in this case, the peta has received the vipaka of their own kamma.
Also, we can arrange the conditions for them to get a good vipaka by giving things or merits to others (such as petas). It is a good thing to do.
What I said should be understood only in the context of sila and bhavana. Because it gives us only the direction to go. One has a responsibility to correct oneselves. And that is the meaning of it.
Thank you
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Dosakkhayo : No. If a peta receives transferred merit, it means that the conditions for the manifestation of that peta’s past kamma have been met. Therefore, in this case, the peta has received the vipaka of their own kamma.
Me: Yes,that makes senses
Thank you !!
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Four Noble Truths – Suffering and Its Elimination
I recently attempted to write an article summarizing Lokkuttara Samma Ditthi. However, today, while reading this post, I realized that everything I intended to write has already been articulated here. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of this post. I sincerely hope that every being can read this post at least once. sadhu! sadhu! sadhu!
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Changes in Perspective on Life by Including Manomaya Kaya in One’s Worldview.
uccheda ditthi
- Genetics provides an explanation that the origin of certain similarities observed between different individuals (especially parent and child) lies in the material that mediates between them.
- Evolution theory explains the diversity of species through the acquisition and loss of genetic traits.
- Evolutionary psychology views changes in material structure as the origin of mental phenomena.
- Biology regards the cell as the smallest unit of life.
- These four fields naturally seek the origin of biological structures in matter.
- As a logical result, they assume the existence of the first cell(LUCA).
- But, it does not have any evidence!
- As a logical result, they assume the existence of the first cell(LUCA).
- All four follow the notion that ‘matter precedes mind,’ which is uccheda ditthi.
mundane samma ditthi
- Establishing mundane samma ditthi involves escaping this one-sided view.
- This is achieved through accepting the concept of manomaya kaya.
- How does manomaya kaya help us understand the phenomenon of life?
- Genetic phenomena between parents and children are the result of two individual lifestreams with similar gati forming a specific relationship.
- Therefore, there is no need for a material substance to transmit the structure of their similarities.
- The distinction between species is determined by the level of mind, not by material structure (genetic traits).
- The physical form changes according to the level of mind.
- Hence, the manifestation of a species should be seen as a manifestation of conditions rather than speciation.
- Mental phenomena are the origin of changes in material structure.
- This directly opposes evolutionary psychology.
- Evolutionary psychology explains selfishness as the core motivation for realizing all other virtues, suggesting that even empathy is merely a tool for passing on genes.
- However, in reality, virtues merely have the incidental effect of helping the species survive longer.
- Evolutionary psychology explains selfishness as the core motivation for realizing all other virtues, suggesting that even empathy is merely a tool for passing on genes.
- This directly opposes evolutionary psychology.
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I believe that the core keyword of Buddha Dhamma is addiction.
Tanha and upadana explain the mechanism of addiction.
Avijja represents the ignorance that leads one to fall into addiction.
Sankhara, vinnana, and namarupa describe how addiction is reinforced.
Salayatana, phassa, and vedana illustrate how stimuli cues are received.
Bhava and jati explain how addiction results within an extended worldview.
Dukkhakhanda portrays all suffering as a manifestation of the consequences of addiction.
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Sila is broken because of kama assada.
Panna is seeing the adinava of kama assada.
Niramisa sukha is felt when one is free from addiction.
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That is correct. In one way of looking at the “big picture,” attachment to sensory inputs or arammana (with tanha and upadana) is the root cause of suffering.
- The amazing fact (that no one else has fully explained with Paticca Samuppada) is that our craving for “worldly pleasures” is based on a grand illusion; our perceptions (saññā) are inherently distorted. The Buddha called saññā a mirage in the “Pheṇapiṇḍūpama Sutta (SN 22.95),” and we discussed that in the post, “Sotapanna Stage and Distorted/Defiled Saññā.”
- Most sukha/dukkha (or, more precisely, somanassa/domanassa) vedana are “mind-made” based on “distorted saññā” built into our physical bodies (via Paticca Samuppada.)
The main points are as follows:
1. Everything in this world is made of “suddhāṭṭhaka” (sometimes written as suddhāshtaka).
- Suddhāṭṭhaka (“suddha” for “pure” or fundamental” + “aṭṭha” or “eight”) means a unit of matter consisting of eight fundamental entities: Four of these belong to the “bhūta” stage of pathavi, āpo, tejo, and vāyo arising due to avijjā. The other four of vaṇṇa, gandha, rasa, and oja arise due to taṇhā.
2. The latter four entities are the ones giving rise to the perception (saññā) or sense of “pleasure” in worldly things:
- Vaṇṇa, gandha, rasa, and oja, respectively, make some things give rise to attractive sights, smells, tastes, and “generative power.”
- The basic ideas are discussed in “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka.“
3. The point mentioned in #2 gives rise to a “distorted saññā” of “tasty foods, beautiful sights, pleasing sounds, etc.
- Read again the post “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā),” and you may be able to get the idea.
- All matter (including our physical bodies) is based on suddhāṭṭhaka. That is how the “distorted saññā” is built into our physical bodies.
I will gradually discuss this profound point in detail in upcoming posts.
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— From dosakkhayo:
“I believe that the core keyword of Buddha Dhamma is addiction.”I found contemplation in terms of addiction or intoxication is of big benefit. We can relate to this since we are familiar with being addicted to one thing or another, and experiencing relief (niramisa sukha) of breaking free from the addiction.
Addiction or intoxication is majji, and I’d like to share two posts that have helped me understand this concept.— (1)
Majjhimā Patipadā – Way to Relinquish Attachments to this World
Bullet #1 explains the deeper aspect of the Path as more than just a “middle path”, but a path free of intoxication.— (2)
The Five Precepts – What the Buddha Meant by Them
Bullet #8 explains the deeper aspect of the 5th precept as also avoiding being intoxicated.The 5th precept is so easily misunderstood as just abstaining from alcohol or substances. In my native language, this precept is called the “wine precept”. There are people who follow this precept so strictly, to the point of not taking even a sip of champagne at a wedding, but wantonly breaking other precepts, like musavada for example, without giving it another thought. This precept, when not understood in its deeper aspect, easily leads to silabata paramasa.
Best,
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Recently, I have come to realize that my understanding of Paticca Samuppada might be incorrect. However, identifying the exact point of error has been challenging, so I wish to re-examine the very basics. I hope you would kindly understand, even if I ask very elementary questions. In “cakkunca paticca rupe ca uppajjati cakkuvinnanam,” is “cakku vinnana” regarded as “bahidda vinnana”?
Regarding “namarupa paccaya salayatana,” I understand it as the stage where the sangati generated in the previous step (vinnana paccaya namarupa) are reflected as ayatana. In this process, the mind becomes defiled, and the indriya are used as ayatana. Is this understanding correct?
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Cakkhu viññāṇa in “Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjāti cakkhu viññāṇaṃ“ is already an ajjhatta viññāṇa. However, nava kamma (with strong kammic energy) accumulation starts after the “tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso” step.
- That may not be explained well in the old posts like “Indriya Make Phassa and Āyatana Make Samphassa.”
It is explained better in the newer post, “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.” See #6 of that post.
- I need to go out for a few hours. You can read those two posts carefully and ask further questions. I will have more time later to explain it better if you have questions.
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Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation
#9
The mind of anyone born a human (including an Arahant) starts at the kāma dhātu stage. That physical body (and the brain) will automatically present to the mind an “altered rupa” instead of a “true representation of the external rupa.”
So, the altered rupa is bahidda rupa, and cakkuvinneyya rupa is ajjhatta rupa?
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Dosakhayo asked: “So, the altered rupa is bahidda rupa, and cakkuvinneyya rupa is ajjhatta rupa?”
Yes. That can be understood as follows.
1. The “Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjāti cakkhu viññāṇaṃ“ includes both the bahiddha viññāṇa and the ajjhatta viññāṇa stages.
2. In #10 of that post, one way to describe the gradual attachment process (within a citta vithi) is stated: “Kāma dhātuṁ, bhikkhave, paṭicca uppajjati kāma saññā, kāma saññaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāma saṅkappo, kāma saṅkappaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmacchando,..” Here, ““Kāma dhātuṁ, bhikkhave, paṭicca uppajjati kāma saññā” represent the bahiddha viññāṇa. Then, “kāma saññaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāma saṅkappo” is the ajjhatta viññāṇa stage. That ajjhatta viññāṇa stage will occur for anyone with kāma rāga anusaya/samyojana, i.e., anyone below the Anagami stage.
3. That same process is described differently in the “Chachakka Sutta (MN 148)” (as described in the other post I mentioned “Indriya Make Phassa and Āyatana Make Samphassa”) as “Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjāti cakkhu viññāṇaṃ, tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso.”
4. Both the bahiddha viññāṇa and the ajjhatta viññāṇa stages are included in the “Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjāti cakkhu viññāṇaṃ” step in that representation.
5. After the “kāma saññaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāma saṅkappo” step comes “kāma saṅkappaṁ paṭicca uppajjati kāmacchando.” This is the second step (tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso) in the other representation of the same event: “Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjāti cakkhu viññāṇaṃ, tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso.” This step happens based on the “saṅ gati” present at that moment. Thus, even for the same person, the level of attachment depends on the state of the mind at that moment.
6. Note the difference in #2 and #5.
- #2: Regardless of the mindset, ANYONE below the Anagami stage WILL generate the ajjhatta viññāṇa.
- #5: However, a strong attachment to the sensory input with kāmacchanda may not happen for someone in a calm mindset trying to be mindful. Controlling this step with “mindfulness” (sila) can gradually eliminate kāma rāga anusaya/samyojana. Of course, cultivating wisdom (paññā) is also needed. As one cultivates paññā and sila, one’s mind will get to samādhi. That, in turn, will help further cultivate paññā and sila, and so on to elevate all three: sila, samādhi, paññā. Eventually, it is paññā that breaks the kāma rāga anusaya/samyojana. That is the Satipatthana/Anapanasati Bhavana!
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1. Khandhas are all mental.
In other words, the khandhas of rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, and vinnana are all mental.2. Rupakkhandha refers to information of rupa.
My current understanding of the distinctions is as follows:Bahidda rupa (distorted, altered rupa), ajjhatta rupa (XX vinneyya rupa)
3. Vedanakkhandha refers to the processing of sensory input
It is connected to tanha.
I currently understand the distinctions as follows:Sukha vedana, dukha vedana, adukhamasukha vedana
Bahidda vedana, ajjhatta vedana
4. Sannakkhandha refers to the contextualization of sensory input
It is connected to avijja.
I currently understand the distinctions as follows:Bahidda sanna, ajjhatta sanna
Kama sanna, rupa sanna, arupa sanna5. Sankharakkhandha refers to how one reacts to rupa.
It especially addresses whether or not kammic energy is generated.
My current understanding of the distinctions is as follows:Bahidda sankhara (kiriya), ajjhatta sankhara (abhisankhara)
6. Vinnanakkhandha synthesizes the above three (nama).
My current understanding of the distinctions is as follows:Bahidda vinnana (vipaka vinnana), ajjhatta vinnana (kamma vinnana)
7. Through the khandhas, the following can be understood:
Rupakkhandha and vinnanakkhandha help distinguish between nama and rupa.
Vedanakkhandha helps identify the cause of tanha (craving) (samphassa ja vedana).
Sannakkhandha helps resolve avijja (ignorance) (by cultivating anicca, dukkha, anatta sanna).
Sankharakkhandha helps understand the formation of karmic energy (abhisankhara).Please let me know if there are any errors in my understanding.
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Yes. Those are good summaries.
#6 can be improved.
- Vinnanakkhandha synthesizes the above four (nama and rupa).
- Bahidda vinnana (vipaka vinnana) = only nama; ajjhatta vinnana (kamma vinnana) is the beginning of making namarupa.
- That “namarupa formation” enhances as the mind gets further contaminated in subsequent steps.
#7: Rupakkhandha and vinnanakkhandha help distinguish between nama, rupa, and namarupa (with kamma vinnana).
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I feel that Dhamma deals with the infinite. Vipassana seems to teach us how to properly see the infinite nature and life. In this regard, Buddha Dhamma speaks of how to navigate without losing our way within the infinite. Within this infinity(samsara), people only see a part of the whole, each creating their own picture and believing in it. However, this cannot encompass the whole. Only the Buddha can see the entirety, and we can hear and understand this from the Buddha or his disciples (Buddha savaka).
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Purana Kamma
This two steps are where cakkhunca paticca rupe ca uppajjati cakkhuvinnanam occurs.
step 1: bahidda vinnana “dhatu -> sanna”
- sensory input: nimitta
- using indriya
- on: bahidda rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara and vinnana
- altered rupa
- bahidda vedana + distorted sanna → giving sensory input experiences
- It depends on the quality of “natural bhavanga state”
- It is not pabhassara citta!
- anusaya/samyojana works in this step. Kāma Guṇa – Origin of Attachment (Tanhā) #12
- patisamvedi step
- only mano sankhara
Q1. Does pabhassara citta start in kama or rupa or arupa dhatu? Or it just does not start in any dhatu?
- My guess: it probably does not attach to any dhatu.
step 2: ajjhatta vinnana “sanna ->sankappa”
- sensory input: arammana
- using ayatana
- on: ajjhatta rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara and vinnana
- XX vineyya rupa. ex) cakku vineyya rupa
- samphassa ja vedana (somanassa and domanassa)
- defiled and mind-made sensory input experiences
- bhava starts in here.
- sangati begin working in this step. Kāma Guṇa – Origin of Attachment (Tanhā) #12
- only mano sankhara too.
Nava Kamma
step 3: tanha paccaya upadana “sankappa -> chanda”
- mano abhisankhara
- defiled gati works in this step.
- raga or dosa(patigha) patisamvedi step starts in here
- kamaguna works in this step.
- It depends on one’s gati and how strong a given arammana to occur. Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Nine Stages of a Thought #19
step 4: ?? “chanda -> parilaha”
- mano abhisankhara
- vinnana get more conteminating
- state of agitation
Q2. What should I call this step?
step 5: avijja paccaya sankhara (stronger than step 4) “parilaha -> pariyesana”
- vaci and kaya abhisankhara
- one is fully engaged with making new kamma
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Pdf file: “Dosakkhayo – Purana and Nava Kamma.”
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Please let me know if there are any mistakes or if any additional information is needed. Thank you.
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1. Q1. Does pabhassara citta start in kama or rupa or arupa dhatu? Or it just does not start in any dhatu?
- Pabhassara citta is not present in any dhatu (kama dhatu, rupa dhatu, or arupa dhatu; those are the “initial state of mind upon receiving a sensory input or arammana.)
- To clarify further, the mind of someone born in kama loka (humans, including Arahants who were born human) will always fall on kama dhatu first. A rupa loka Brahma‘s mind will first fall on rupa dhatu, and an arupa loka Brahma‘s mind will first fall on arupa dhatu.
- Furthermore, if a human is in a rupacavara jhana, his mind will also fall on rupa dhatu upon receiving a new arammana.
This figure from “Vipariṇāma – Two Meanings.”
- As you can see, the “pabhassara citta” does not fall into any of the three “dhatu” or “loka.”
- It is experienced only at the Arahant-phala moment or later in “Arahant-phala samapatti.”
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2. step 2: ajjhatta vinnana “sanna ->sankappa”
- This description is correct.
- The bahidda vinnana has “distorted sanna” but no defilements (raga, dosa, moha.)
- We mainly restrict our general discussions to kama dhatu, especially in the following.
- Bahidda vinnana becomes an ajjhatta vinnana in a split second for anyone with the five lower samyojana. Thus, an Arahant or Anagami would not enter the “ajjhatta vinnana” stage.
The above chart is from “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
Once get into the “ajjhatta vinnana” stage, a mind can further contaminate rapidly via several stages, as shown in the above chart.
- Those steps are listed in #10 of the above post. They are essentially the same as Dosakkhayo listed in steps 1 through 5.
- That “expansion” is indicated in the chart.
- Up to the “tanha paccaya upadana” step, the expansion is slow, i.e., kamma accumulation is slow. But at the “tanha paccaya upadana” step, one starts accumulating kamma consciously (with vaci and kaya abhisankhara.) That is why it is called the “nava (new) kamma” stage. Kammic energies to bring vipaka in future lives are generated here.
- As shown in the chart, kamma accumulation accelerates with kamacchanda, kama parilaha, etc., ending with dasa akusala.
- See “Taṇhā Paccayā Upādāna – Critical Step in Paṭicca Samuppāda” for details.
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I just reviesed some points.
Purana Kamma
This two steps are where cakkhunca paticca rupe ca uppajjati cakkhuvinnanam occurs.
step 1: bahidda vinnana “dhatu -> sanna”
- sensory input: nimitta
- using indriya
- on: bahidda rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara and vinnana
- altered rupa
- bahidda vedana + distorted sanna → giving sensory input experiences
- It depends on the quality of “natural bhavanga state”
- It is not pabhassara citta!
- anusaya/samyojana works in this step. Kāma Guṇa – Origin of Attachment (Tanhā) #12
- patisamvedi step
step 2: ajjhatta vinnana “sanna ->sankappa”
- sensory input: arammana
- using ayatana
- on: ajjhatta rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara and vinnana
- XX vineyya rupa. ex) cakku vineyya rupa
- samphassa ja vedana (somanassa and domanassa)
- defiled and mind-made sensory input experiences
- bhava starts in here.
- sangati begin working in this step. Kāma Guṇa – Origin of Attachment (Tanhā) #12
- kamaguna works in this step.
- raga or dosa(patigha) patisamvedi step starts in here
Nava Kamma
step 3: tanha paccaya upadana “sankappa -> chanda”
- defiled gati works in this step.
- It depends on one’s gati and how strong a given arammana to occur. Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Nine Stages of a Thought #19
step 4: avijja paccaya sankhara “chanda -> parilaha”
- vinnana get more conteminating
- state of agitation
step 5: avijja paccaya sankhara “parilaha -> pariyesana” (stronger than step 4)
- vaci and kaya abhisankhara
- one is fully engaged with making new kamma
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I have been contemplating the concept of namarupa paricceda nana.
namarupa paricceda nana is the understanding that despite the infinite diversity of life, there is a certain common principle that applies to all life without exception.
This principle is that rupa—the mental body, physical body, and everything else—is formed through the mind (kamma vinnana).
In the process where kamma vinnana creates namarupa, it connects nama and rupa.
And this connection shows a specific pattern, which is that the quality of namarupa is according to the quality of kamma vinnana.
In this way, a sotapanna clearly sees the connection between kamma vinnana and namarupa, and naturally understands that the cessation of vinnana leads to the cessation of namarupa.
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Yes.
- Here, “nama” refers to the “impression of an external rupa” that one likes/dislikes. That is what the mind is focused on at that moment.
- “Namarupa” is the “rupa” created by the mind with that kamma vinnana per that impression. Essentially, that is the kammic energy generated to give rise to such a namarupa in the future.
- The more one does mano, vaci, and kaya (abhi)sankhara (with avijja), the stronger kammic energy becomes.
- That happens because the mind craves (or despises) such a namarupa. This is based on “distorted sanna,” which gives the impression that some things are valuable and can bring happiness: “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā)“
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The rebirth process can be seen as a process of repeatedly moving between good and bad realms.
- What we can learn from this is that where one is born (jati) depends on the level and nature of the contamination of the mind (bhava).
I have further expanded on this through distorted sañña.
- Saṃsāra can also be described as the cycle of kamma viññāṇa and the corresponding vipāka viññāṇa.
- For such vipāka viññāṇa to be experienced, there must be a corresponding kāya.
- What I learned from studying distorted sañña is that the distortion corresponding to kamma viññāṇa is imprinted on the kāya as vipāka.
What can be understood from kamma and vipāka is the clear distinction between what is given and what I can change.
- Distorted sañña can also be viewed in the same way as dealing with vipāka.
- It is about distinguishing between what is given (distorted sañña) and what can be changed by oneself (defiled sañña).
Recently, I have contemplated this concept a lot and have been able to reflect beneficially on kāma rāga.
I express my deep gratitude to Ven. Lal, who made this possible.
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Yes. Dosakkhayo’s above comment provides some critical insights. Let me expand on that a bit more.
- One’s physical and mental bodies arise according to the type of kamma responsible for bringing this existence (bhava) and birth (jati.)
- For example, a pig is born according to lowly, immoral actions done as a human. Such kamma (probably done with greed) produces an existence that likes “lowly tastes.” Thus, eating garbage/feces produces an “enticing sanna” in a pig. However, that “distorted sanna” cannot lead to strong immoral deeds (akusala kamma) in a pig (or any being in an apaya).
- Strong javana cittas that can bring good or bad outcomes can arise mostly in humans. This is a key nugget from Abhidhamma.
- Now, a human bhava (and jati with a physical body) arises due to a “good kamma vipaka” (via punna abhisankhara), but still “contaminated with kama raga or craving for sensual pleasures.” Therefore, the human body produces an “enticing sanna” only for sugar, cake, pizza, etc., but NOT for garbage/feces. Yet, if a human engages in immoral deeds to acquire such tasty foods by engaging in “lowly deeds” (like stealing or taking bribes, for example) on a regular basis, that can lead to acquiring enough akusala kamma to bring a “pig birth” via a “pig existence.”
A key point is that the “distorted sanna” is according to the birth.
- Beings in different realms are born with corresponding “distorted sanna” built-in.
- In another example, rupavacara Brahmas automatically generate “enticing sanna” with their “jhanic thoughts.” Their existence arose due to the cultivation of jhana as humans.
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This video shows the danger of addiction. I think it can be a good kammatthana for seeing samsara’s danger too.
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I’ve been reconsidering the concept of anicca recently. Anicca signifies the discrepancy between the natural law and our distorted expectation that things will unfold as we desire. Anicca does not merely refer to physical changes, but rather explains the nature of mental entities. It’s not a descriptive statement saying “it undergoes change,” but a prescriptive statement implying that “one must attain nibbana.” That is why understanding anicca as impermanence is merely a superficial statement. One must fulfill nibbana. This is the responsibility of each individual life. The pali phrase “katam karaniyam” shows that point. Arahant is who fulfilled nibbana.
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“Anicca signifies the discrepancy between the natural law and our distorted expectation that things will unfold as we desire.”
This is an interesting point. If I were to understand it correctly, if we see a puddle of water evaporate, that is not anicca to us because we do not cling on to it, but it is also true that the puddle of water cannot stay like that permanently.
Therefore when the Buddha says rupa/ vedana/ sanna/ sankhara/ vinnana is anicca, he is only referring to those of pancauppadanakhanda. Would you say so?
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Yes! Even though we can talk about “impermanence/decay” of external things (which is also true), the main point is the anicca nature of the panca upadana khanda.
- Those rupas that the mind makes (“cakkhu vinneyya rupa“) are of the anicca nature. Those are the types of rupa that we hope to attain/acquire. Even if such a material rupa is acquired, we cannot keep it forever, or even until death, most of the time. for example, we like to eat tasty food, and most of the time, we can accomplish that. (But in reality, all that effort was in vain because the “tastiness” is an illusion!) Furthermore, if we want more of that food, we have to do it all over, too. There are many implications to contemplate.
- Thus, our efforts (sankhara) are of the anicca nature (pointless, fruitless); our expectations for such rupa (vinnana) are of the anicca nature.
P.S. The mind-made “cakkhu vinneyya rupa” is made with the “distorted sanna.” Of course, Arahants do not get to that step, even though they also get the “distorted sanna” (of tasty food, for example.)
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Does this explanation apply to this situation? Let’s take the example of a married man who can no longer be satisfied with his wife. He would really like to relive the flame he experienced on the first day of their marriage. However, he is unable to recreate the happiness of the first days and starts to get depressed. In other situations, depending on his gatī, he may indulge in adultery or a secret affair. I don’t know if this is correct, but a sotāpanna can be in a dull marriage, right? However, since he or she knows about the inability to maintain feelings to our liking, he or she will not indulge in adultery out of boredom.
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That is hard to say. All we know is that a Sotapanna is incapable of doing an “apayagami deed,” i.e., one can lead to rebirth in an apaya.
- Since they still have kama raga, they may be tempted to engage in some inappropriate behavior.
- If one has not fully grasped the concept of “distorted sanna,” temptations triggered by kama raga can be strong.
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Does this mean that an arahant does not experience anicca nature, since the arahant does not have panca upadana khanda? Same for dukkha (but he would still experience dukkha dukkha, physical suffereing) and anatta.
Since the arahant will see everything as like water evaporating, it is not anicca to him since he does not cling on to it too, it is just a natural phenomenon. He doesn’t even have to contemplate death of his parents as anicca! It will just be like water evaporating. But for those below the arahant level, they will need to continue to contemplate those that they cling on to as anicca.
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Arahants do not have panca upadana khanda (i.e., do not generate craving for anything in this world) because they have understood anicca nature.
- You need to read and think more about the concept of anicca. See “Anicca – True Meaning“
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Hello Pathfinder,
This is just my understanding, hope it helps in any way. Anything that’s conditioned, dependently originated or the “all” (sabba) from this world including arahants and Sammasambuddha’s experiences anicca. As well anicca takes effect regardless if one “clings or attaches” to the 5 aggregates or not. The only time when something is not anicca or doesn’t experience it is when it’s “not” conditioned or dependently originated which would be nicca.
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Hi TripleGemStudent
Yes, that is what I initially thought as well. However, I found that dosakkhayo’s point makes sense as well: “Anicca signifies the discrepancy between the natural law and our distorted expectation that things will unfold as we desire”
If we take anicca to be “not icca/ not to our liking”, then it implies that we have icca for it in the first place. But do we have icca for everything? Would we ever think of a puddle of water as either nicca or anicca? If we do not cling to the puddle of water, it is neither nicca or anicca to us. Since anicca, dukkha, and anatta are linked (Yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ, yaṁ dukkhaṁ tadanattā – whatever is anicca is dukkha, whatever is dukkha is anatta) if the puddle of water does not cause dukkha to us, then it would not be anicca too by the logical statement. The puddle of water will only cause dukkha if we attach to it. Which is why I think it can be helpful to think of anicca with respect to clinging/ panca upadana khanda, on top of how things are conditioned, and not that every single thing is anicca.
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May you Pathfinder and all of us living beings be well.
“I think it can be helpful to think of anicca with respect to clinging/ panca upadana khanda, on top of how things are conditioned”.
“If we take anicca to be “not icca/ not to our liking”, then it implies that we have icca for it in the first place”
I completely agree that it’s helpful and I’ll add “needed” to think of anicca in relation to the clinging / pancaupadanakkhanda. Definitely beneficial, lots to observe, learn and realize from this teaching. Before last year, I feel most of what I learned and understood over the years in regards to anicca was in respect to pancaupadanakkhanda. But recently something that really helped me to further my understanding of anicca and one of the most simple example I can think of to share what helped me is be based on some modification of your words “I think it can be helpful to think of anicca with respect to how things are conditioned on top of the pancaupadanakkhanda”. The conditioning here I’m talking about isn’t just about the akusala-mula being initiated or with some form of attachment, but relating to all of our experiences / phenomenon. This is my understanding, as long as one is a satta anywhere in the 31 realms, anicca takes effect regardless if one has icca / attachments (tanha, asava’s, anusaya’s) or not, even the Noble 8 Fold Path itself is anicca.
“the puddle of water does not cause dukkha to us, then it would not be anicca too by the logical statement”.
I believe to understand your logical / reasoning, to me the puddle of water or our experiencing of it is anicca itself and like you said “Since anicca, dukkha, and anatta are linked (Yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ, yaṁ dukkhaṁ tadanattā – whatever is anicca is dukkha, whatever is dukkha is anatta)”. Since I said our experiencing of the puddle of water is anicca itself, then that means dukkha and anatta follow. My understanding of dukkha doesn’t necessarily just mean “suffering”, but can mean different things depending on the context. Regardless whether the puddle of water cause us dukkha (based on attachment) or not, it would still be considered dukkha to me. If one is not attached to the experience / phenomenon even with right view, I would still consider that as dukkha as well since it’s anicca, but not the dukkha that comes with attachment or the akusala-mula P.S.
“and not that every single thing is anicca”.
If I may ask, based on Paramattha Sacca (4 ultimate truths) rupa, citta, cetasika and nibbana. Besides nibbana, which of rupa, citta or cetasika is not anicca?
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1. One will engage in activities of the anicca nature as long as one does not see the futility of such actions.
- That is an excellent way to understand what is meant by “anicca.”
2. Initially, it is OK to talk about the “anicca nature of external things.”
- However, the Buddha taught about a mental process that leads to suffering. That “mental process” is Paticca Samuppada.
- Ignorance of #1 above makes us engage in unfruitful activities: “avijja paccaya sankhara.” For example, seeking happiness in sensory pleasures is of the anicca nature.
- Two most recent posts are also based on that point: “Introduction – What is Suffering?” and “Citta Evolving To Viññāna And Viññākkhanda In Nine Steps. ” Most posts on this website explain different aspects of that point.
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I have summarized my understanding of distorted sanna as follows:
Distorted sanna refers to bahidda sanna.
It arises according to the built in system of indriya (manomaya kaya + physical body) which causes distortion.
Bahidda sanna creates the illusion that external objects possess attractive or repulsive characteristics.
However, external objects composed of apo, tejo, pathavi, and vayo are neutral.
This illusion can be overcome by understanding the mechanism that drives the system.
It is Paticca Samuppada.
Indriya samvara refers to the process of gradually eliminating ajjhatta kaya by understanding this distortion.
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Very good.
However, there is a deeper issue related to your following statement: “However, external objects composed of apo, tejo, pathavi, and vayo are neutral.”
All objects (living and inert) are made of suddhāṭṭhaka (meaning eight components). In addition to apo, tejo, pathavi, and vayo, there are four more: vaṇṇa, gandha, rasa, and oja.
- The former four components are made (in the mind) via avijja, and the latter four are made with tanha (P.S. craving for worldly things, which depends on one’s gati. Humans crave things different from those animals crave, etc.)
- That is the deeper explanation for the “distorted sanna” that is built into not only our manomaya kaya (a few suddhāṭṭhaka) and the physical body (innumerable suddhāṭṭhaka) but also into inert matter (sweetness of sugar, etc.).
I tried to explain that in my comment on August 12, 2024 at 6:46 am, in the following thread: “Scientists getting a glimpse of distorted saññā.”
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I apologize, but this is a bit difficult to understand. If I may ask, are you suggesting that external objects are also somewhat distorted or contaminated to a certain degree?
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Yes. All external objects (rocks, trees, etc) are also made of suddhāṭṭhaka. Are they not?
- I would not say they are “contaminated.” In Buddha Dhamma, “contamination” refers to raga, dosa, and moha. Rocks or trees don’t generate thoughts.
- Everything in this world is made of suddhāṭṭhaka.
But this is a deeper point, which will become clear as one makes progress. Yet, if one understands that a suddhāṭṭhaka means eight components, it should be evident. In addition to apo, tejo, pathavi, and vayo, there are four more: vaṇṇa, gandha, rasa, and oja. The latter four arise due to cravings.
- I see that I forgot to mention the post where this is discussed: “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka“
- Each living being “prepares” its future births. All living beings (collectively) prepare the world they live in.
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Thank you for your explanation. I appreciate your help.
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The following is the explanation that I referred to in my earlier comment. I had referred to the post “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka” there. Did you not read it? If there are questions, you (or anyone else) can quote any unclear statement and ask questions.
1. Yes. Our physical bodies are made to be compatible with our perceptions. We taste honey as sweet, and it is also nutritious.
- On the other hand, we taste rotten meat to be yucky, and we will also get sick if we eat it. Our bodies are not “compatible” with extracting nutrition from rotten meat.
- On the other hand, pigs like the taste of rotten meat, and their bodies are compatible with extracting nutrition from it.
2. Here is a profound point to consider: Everything in the material world is made of suddhāṭṭhaka, which are the “basic building blocks” according to Buddha Dhamma (sort of like atoms are building blocks according to science, but an atom is made of billions of suddhāṭṭhaka.)
- A suddhāṭṭhaka has eight components: pathavi, āpo, tejo, vāyo and vaṇṇa, gandha, rasa, oja.
- Anything in the material world is of all EIGHT components. However, the relative amounts of the eight components vary. For example, a stone is mostly pathavi, but it has all eight components; in a stone, pathavi dominates and all others are at low levels. For example, crocodiles eat mud and are able to extract nutrition from it.
- The “attracting qualities” (sweetness, pleasing colors, etc) in our food comes from the four components of vaṇṇa, gandha, rasa, oja. Specifically, the sweetness in honey comes from rasa.
3. As the post “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka” explains, the eight components in a suddhāṭṭhaka have origins in the mind (specifically in javana cittas.) The following #9 is extracted from that post:
“9. The mind creates four types of gati (pathavi, āpo, tejo, and vāyo) due to avijjā or ignorance. We like to have possession of things made out of these units because we do not comprehend the “unfruitful nature” of such impermanent things.
- The craving for material things leads to four more gati due to taṇhā. Due to our tendency to think highly (“varnanā karanava” in Sinhala), another gati of “vaṇṇa” is created as different manifestations of the four primary bhūta of pathavi, āpo, tejo, and vāyo. Similarly, three more units of gandha, rasa, and oja are created due to taṇhā. Those correspond to our desire to be in touch with them and be “fooled” (gandha), keep them close (rassa), and re-generate them (oja).
- It will take too much space to explain these in detail, but I hope you get the basic idea. Further information at “Bhūta and Yathābhūta – What Do They Really Mean.” See #5 there, clarifying the transition from “gati” to “bhuta” to “mahā bhūta” stages.”
4. Here is the most profound point: Our physical bodies are not the primary part of us. Instead, it is the “mental body” or the “manomaya kaya” (gandhabba). The main part of the manomaya kaya is a single suddhāṭṭhaka, made of the same eight components. That is the hadaya vatthu, where our thoughts (cittas) arise.
- However, unlike inert matter like a rock, the hadaya vatthu has all our “human gati” associated with it.
- That is why we are instinctively attracted to the “sweetness of honey,” “sight of a beautiful person,” etc.
- A pig’s hadaya vatthu has all its “pig gati” associated with it.
- P.S. The ” distorted saññā” is associated with the hadaya vatthu!
- This is a deep point, but it could be helpful.
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I thought I had understood, but upon reflection, I realize I may not have fully grasped it, so I’m asking this question.
Kamaguna suggests that the attracting quality is created in one’s own mind.
Then, does the explanation of suddhatthaka mean that kamaguna doesn’t exist in external objects, but rather that the mind distortedly reflects the attracting quality when it creates suddhatthaka?
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For anyone who has not understood how the “sweetness of sugar” gets “embedded in sugar,” “kamaguna” is in sugar.
- However, one who understands the process knows that the “sweetness of sugar” is “embedded in sugar” due to a mental process. Only those who have similar mindsets taste sugar to be sweet (a lion does not taste sugar to be sweet.)
- Thus, one who understands the process will not attach to the “sweetness of sugar” even though they still taste “sugar to be sweet.” That is mainly because they also understand that such attachments lead to more suffering.
- Just that understanding, by itself, (janato) does not remove the craving for sweet things or more desirable sensory experiences. That is why one needs to contemplate that incessantly. That is why Satipatthana must be cultivated by those who understand the process to get to the “passato” stage. See “Jānato Passato” and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.”
- These “kama sanna” are deeply engraved in our minds through countless lives. It is not easy to lose that “distorted sanna.” In the “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)“, the Buddha said it could take seven days to seven years if cultivated properly.
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Of course.
- “Kamaguna” arises in a puthujjana‘s mind because they think the “sweetness of sugar” is real and not mind-made.
- The tricky part is that no experiments within the world can deny that the “sweetness of sugar” is in sugar. Scientists will say a specific type of molecule causes the sweetness. Those molecules are made by kammic energy to provide that “sanna of sweetness” in humans!
- P.S. Even for an Ariya who has understood this process (janato), it will take time to overcome the attachment to that sanna (“passato“). That is what I explained above.
- This is also why the Buddha said his Dhamma would be difficult to comprehend. Even the “janitor” part may not be easy, but that is the “core” of the Buddha Dhamma. To become “sanditthiko” (i.e., how “san” arises), one needs to comprehend this process.
Take the time to read the comments and relevant posts.
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The Korean idiom ‘밑 빠진 독’ literally means ‘a jar with a hole in the bottom.’ It describes a situation where no matter how much effort or resources you put into something, nothing accumulates or results, as if you’re trying to fill a jar that has no bottom. I think this explains anicca, dukkha, and anatta well. Samsara is 밑 빠진 독.
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