- This topic has 9 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 8 months, 1 week ago by LayDhammaFollower.
September 21, 2022 at 2:54 pm #40510
#1 I did read somewhere that hell beings have dense body developed to impart upon them different kinds of suffering in them. (For example, spear hitting them, being fried etc etc.)
Suffering in hell requires dense body, I assume.
If they have dense body, why can we not detect them with scientific instruments?
How such a dense body is born without eating food etc?
Because, I assume birth in two hells is spontaneous. How spontaneous dense body are formed? if any rough mechanism can be provided for this.
#2 Also, I did read somewhere that they have huge body proportions in many cases. For example, huge body with very small head and other variation.
I assume although they have body with such ratio, their body is much smaller in comparison to human body over all. that is why we cannot detect them. But this is just hypothesis, I am not sure about solution.
Also, if there body was even more bigger then humans in addition to being dense, how can so many such hell beings can live near core of earth? Considering huge birth rate there.
IF they have big and dense body, why can we not detect them?
I am not sure about any of my claim,
Please, comment on them.
September 22, 2022 at 6:30 am #40518
“If they have dense body, why can we not detect them with scientific instruments?”
OK. Let us go step-by-step.
1. Does anyone know where the hell (niraya) is below the Earth’s surface?
2. Do you know that “scientific instruments” do not function below a certain depth? Even metals melt below a certain depth.
3. The Buddha has taught that Deva and Brahma realms also exist, in addition to the niraya (one of the four apayas). Furthermore, the peta (preta) and asura realms also belong to the apayas. Have you or anyone else seen them?
September 22, 2022 at 9:34 am #40519
Lal, I am not skeptic of buddha.
I believe that buddha among countless others saw the hells with his abhinna powers.
I said, I am not sure about my statements, I am not expert on geography nor I have abhinna powers.
1. I don’t know exact location, except that hells are said to below the surface of earth. One source is your post on “does hell exists?”, Another source is “Buddha Vamsa” written by mingun sayadaw, this two sources says that hells are below the earth’s surface without mentioning exact location.
2. I thought there might be some sort of instrument with which we may be able to send some sorts of waves
3. Three sources come to mind in this regard:
1st source and 2nd source are both Buddhist friends who follow puredhamma, they have notable meditative attainments, including abhinna to see the hell realms and brahama realms. So, even if this friends were not able to see them, I would believe it on faith in buddha.
Third source is abhaya thero’s experiment of spirit possessions. He performed many such experiments and asked Peta and ghosts about their life, how many of them are there, what they did to born in such state etc.
Those are my sources apart from tipitaka.
Lal, As I said my Question is not regarding whether they exist or not, my question is regarding detection of hell beings, not ghosts.
#1 IF THEY HAVE HUGE BODY (IN SIZE)
#2 IF THEY HAVE DENSE BODY
IF #1 AND #2 ARE TRUE,
what’s problem with detection?
September 22, 2022 at 10:07 am #40521
“IF #1 AND #2 ARE TRUE,
what’s problem with detection?”
1. Detect with what? Scientific instruments melt below a certain depth.
– Do they know where the niraya is? At what depth? At what location? Earth is huge.
2. There are MANY things that scientists do not understand. Don’t look to science for answers to these types of questions.
– Do they even know how “vision” happens? No.
– See “How Do We See? – Role of the Gandhabba”
3. The “hell beings” are born via kammic energy. They do not have bodies similar to us. You are thinking in terms of our bodies. Our bodies would not last a millisecond in a niraya. They are born with “bodies” that can withstand such heat enough to feel suffering.
– Laws of kamma and how kamma vipaka give rise to “bodies” in various realms are discernible only to a Buddha. I have added a sutta reference (Acinteyya Sutta) in bullet #3 of post in #2 above.
4. These are questions about things average humans do not perceive. One can waste a lifetime looking into these issues.
– However, it is good to realize the above to dispel doubts. I am glad that you asked the question in that sense. But such doubts cannot be dispelled by looking at “verification” by science.
– Also, see “Dhamma and Science – Introduction”
September 22, 2022 at 10:50 am #40522
Okay. Understood, lal.
And yes, I am making my way through “dhamma and science” section.
September 29, 2022 at 1:16 pm #40600
Lal, I was exploring waharaka sermon website, when I came across this sermon.
I translated the website into English. However, I cannot understand sinhala.
The title of this sermon in English is,
“Is there an underground hell that we can’t see?”
This sermon might be relevant to this thread.
If you hear or have heard The sermon,
September 29, 2022 at 2:37 pm #40601
Lal, I couldn’t put the link properly, because the box with various signs did not show up at time of writing above reply despite refreshing page two times.
Sorry for that.
However, now signs are visible.
(Signs means; I, B, U, Link, Quote etc.)
September 29, 2022 at 2:53 pm #40602
No problem. I was testing some settings; I try to do that when website traffic is slow. That is why the text editor was not available. So, it may not work for brief periods.
I will listen to the sermon and comment later.
September 29, 2022 at 8:25 pm #40608
I listened to the discourse. Let me summarize.
1. There are many things in this world that average humans cannot perceive. There are unseen beings living among us (gandhbbas and some petas) that we cannot see, but those with iddhi powers can see.
2. @29 minutes, the Thero discusses the following account:
“The Siberian Hell Sounds”
– The Thero says he has heard similar “hellish sounds,” while being in samadhi a couple of times, but he did not want to hear them again.
3. @35 minutes, reference is made to the following video (I believe):
– There is a book, “23 Minutes In Hell: One Man’s Story About What He Saw, Heard, and Felt in that Place of Torment” by that person, Bill Wiese.
4. I have discussed some of these in the post “Does the Hell (Niraya) Exist?”
– I need to include Waharaka Thero’s experience (in #2 above) in #4 of that post. I was skeptical about that sound record when I wrote that post.
5. Many suttas describe the propensity to be born in an apaya. There is a series of about 30 suttas starting with the “Manussacutiniraya Sutta (SN 56.102).”
– According to those suttas, most of those at the end of their human or Deva bhava are reborn in an apaya.
September 30, 2022 at 5:27 am #40610
Brilliant. Thank you for helping in understanding that discourse.
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