- This topic has 8 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 5 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
-
The translation of Bahuna Sutta is the following:
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Campa, on the shore of Gaggara Lake. Then Ven. Bahuna went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: “Lord, freed, dissociated, & released from how many things does the Tathagata dwell with unrestricted awareness?”
“Freed, dissociated, & released from ten things, Bahuna, the Tathagata dwells with unrestricted awareness. Which ten? Freed, dissociated, & released from form, the Tathagata dwells with unrestricted awareness. Freed, dissociated, & released from feeling… Freed, dissociated, & released from perception… Freed, dissociated, & released from fabrications… Freed, dissociated, & released from consciousness… Freed, dissociated, & released from birth… Freed, dissociated, & released from aging… Freed, dissociated, & released from death… Freed, dissociated, & released from stress… Freed, dissociated, & released from defilement, the Tathagata dwells with unrestricted awareness.
“Just as a red, blue, or white lotus born in the water and growing in the water, rises up above the water and stands with no water adhering to it, in the same way the Tathagata — freed, dissociated, & released from these ten things — dwells with unrestricted awareness.”
What exactly is the “unrestricted awareness” that Buddha is referring to in this sutta?
-
The translation at Sutta Central: “Bāhuna Sutta (AN 10.81)”
The key verse to be understood is:
“katihi nu kho, bhante, dhammehi tathāgato nissaṭo visaṁyutto vippamutto vimariyādīkatena cetasā viharatī”ti?”
Sutta Central translation: “Sir, how many things has the Realized One escaped from, so that he lives detached, liberated, his mind free of limits?”
AccesstoInsight translation Taryal provided: “Lord, freed, dissociated, & released from how many things does the Tathagata dwell with unrestricted awareness?”
The Buddha stated: “Dasahi kho, vāhana, dhammehi tathāgato nissaṭo visaṁyutto vippamutto vimariyādīkatena cetasā viharati. Katamehi dasahi?” OR “Bāhuna, the Realized One has escaped from ten things, so that he lives detached, liberated, his mind free of limits.” (Sutta Central translation).
Then, the sutta says there are ten things that the Buddha (tathāgato) is free from: Rūpena kho, vāhana, tathāgato nissaṭo visaṁyutto vippamutto vimariyādīkatena cetasā viharati, vedanāya kho, vāhana …pe… saññāya kho, vāhana … saṅkhārehi kho, vāhana … viññāṇena kho, vāhana … jātiyā kho, vāhana … jarāya kho, vāhana … maraṇena kho, vāhana … dukkhehi kho, vāhana … kilesehi kho, vāhana, tathāgato nissaṭo visaṁyutto vippamutto vimariyādīkatena cetasā viharati.
Can anyone point out how to express those ten things? I think the answers should come from you all rather than me.
- This is what is involved in insight meditation!
-
My translation:
“Bāhuna, the Realized One has escaped from ten things, so that he lives detached, liberated, his mind free of limits. What ten?
Attachment to Rupa (Dhammā, Dhātu, etc.)…
Attachment to (Mind-made) feelings…
Defiled Perception…
Abhisaṅkhāra (negative mental volition)…
Kamma viññāṇa (Defiled Consciousness)…
Rebirth…
Old Age (as there is no future existence)…
Death (as there is no future existence)…
Future Suffering (associated with Rebirth)
Mental Defilements of Lobha, Dosa, and Moha…”
-
Instead of unrestricted awareness, maybe it might be better to called “Uncontaminated or undefiled awareness”?
“Can anyone point out how to express those ten things?”
One word that I can think of to express these 10 things is “pancaupadanakkhanda”.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Very good, Taryal! But we can dig a bit deeper.
1. This sutta is specifically about “paṭiccasamuppannā dhammā,” i.e., those entities that arise via Paṭicca Samuppāda.”
- All the terms in Paṭicca Samuppāda arise due to causes and conditions and, therefore, can be stopped from arising.
- Obviously, the Buddha (and Arahants) have done that.
- All the terms in Paṭicca Samuppāda are “paṭiccasamuppannā dhammā.” See “Paccaya Sutta (SN 12.20).”
2. Another set of entities (dhammā) that DO NOT arise for a Buddha (and Arahants) are rupa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāna in pañcupādānakkhandhā (pañca upādānakkhandhā).
- Since five entities have stopped arising in Buddha, rupa DO NOT imply rupa in the external world. They refer to “rupa” that arise in the mind together with defilements. Obviously, the Buddha can see, hear, smell, etc., things in the external world.
- Similarly, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāna DO NOT refer to all vedana (only samphassa-jā-vedanā), all saññā (only upādāna for saññā), all saṅkhāra (only abhisaṅkhāra), or all viññāna (only kamma viññāna.)
- Those five entities can also be written as rupa upādānakkhandha, vedanā upādānakkhandha, saññā upādānakkhandha, saṅkhāra upādānakkhandha, and viññāṇa upādānakkhandha.
3. In the “Bāhuna Sutta (AN 10.81)” all five entities in #2 are listed, but only five from #1 are listed.
4. We can also relate to the material discussed regarding “distorted saññā” in the sections “Sotapanna Stage via Understanding Perception (Saññā)” and “Meditation – Deeper Aspects.”
- The root cause for the arising of rupa upādānakkhandha, vedanā upādānakkhandha, saññā upādānakkhandha, saṅkhāra upādānakkhandha, and viññāṇa upādānakkhandha is the arising of ajjhatta rupa, ajjhatta vedanā, ajjhatta saññā, ajjhatta saṅkhāra, and ajjhatta viññāṇa BASED ON “distorted saññā.“
- It may have become apparent to some. But it will hopefully become more evident in the upcoming posts.
P.S. I see that TripleGemStudent posted a comment about #2 above. Very good!
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I see, so it is safe to say that those English translations are not accurate. Tathagata experiences vipāka viññāṇa with pabhassara citta.
Dr. Lal wrote: “Since five entities have stopped arising in Buddha, rupa DO NOT imply rupa in the external world. They refer to “rupa” that arise in the mind together with defilements.“
Does this refer to the subtle rupa generated by javana citta in viññāna paccayā nāmarūpa? A Tathagata can still generate rupa using mental power, right?
-
Of course, those translations are wrong in numerous cases.
- For example, just translating “rupa” as form is lunacy, which they do in many suttas. “Rupa” in most suttas refers to a “mind-generated defiled versions (e.g., “cakkhu vinneyya rupa“) of external rupa“ and those can be stopped from arising (rupa nirodha).
- That is clearly stated in many suttas. See, for example, “Rūpaaññāṇa Sutta (SN 33.1).” The verse, “Rūpe kho, vaccha, aññāṇā, rūpasamudaye aññāṇā, rūpanirodhe aññāṇā, rūpanirodhagāminiyā paṭipadāya aññāṇā evamimāni anekavihitāni diṭṭhigatāni loke uppajjanti—..” means “Vaccha, it is because one does not understand (aññāṇā) the origin, cessation, and the way to cessation (Noble Path) of “cakkhu vinneyya rupa” (for example), that one will embrace various wrong views…” Of course, that explains how future suffering arises.
The subsequent suttas explain the same for the cessation of vedana, sanna, etc. For example, the next sutta in the series “Vedanāaññāṇa Sutta (SN 33.2)” states the same about vedana.
- However, do all vedana stop arising after attaining Arahanthood? Of course not.
- One must know enough to explain that “vedana” here refers ONLY to “samphassa-ja-vedana” or ‘mind-made defiled vedana.”
- This is why “word-by-word” translations are dangerous!
-
-
The following sutta explains that all magga phala are attained by contemplating the “anicca, dukkha, roga, gaṇḍa, salla, aghato, ābādhato, parato palokato suññato anatta” nature of pañcupādānakkhandhā (written simply as rupa, vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana in almost all suttas.)
- “Sīlavanta Sutta (SN 22.122)“
- Of course, the English translation in the link has many errors, especially regarding anicca and anatta!
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.