[Zapper]

Hey Lal
My question to you is:
Do you experience sense inputs in arupa jhanas?
Thanks in advance.

[Lal]

There is ‘sensory experience” in ALL jhana.
– But arupa jhanas have ONLY “mental experiences.”

Average human lives in kama loka and experiences ALL SIX sensory experiences: FIVE physical (sight, sound, taste, smell, touch) and ONE mind-only (mano).

In RUPA jhanas, the physical senses gradually fade away as one proceeds to higher rupa jhanas.
– At the transition from the fourth (and highest) rupa jhana to the first ARUPA jhana (akasanancayatana) ALL FIVE physical sensory experiences stop.

[tiom]

Dear Lal, is this coming from your personal experience or theoretical knowledge?

[Lal]

Both to a certain extent.

[tiom]

I don’t experience complete cessation of sensory input in arupa jhanas. It only gets progressively muted. I guess it could be different for all of us.

[Christian]

Most people who speak about jhanas do not experience jhanas but some lower states of concentration, are you sure you experienced arupa jhanas?

[Lal]

Yes. It is a good idea to make certain that one has gone through the four lower jhanas as described by the Buddha.

See, “Jhānic Experience in Detail – Sāmañ­ña­phala Sutta (DN 2)“

[tiom]

Let me clarify. I was able to go into the Rupa jhanas since childhood. I discovered what these states are called about 2 years ago during Dzogchen retreat with Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche in New York at the Garrison institute.

Around 3 months later I was able to go to the 5th jhana (Arupa) during Mettā retreat with Jack Kornfield at the same place. A bit later I went higher.

These are defined states just as described in all scriptures. These states are very solid, real and do not resemble states of strong concentration that happen during meditation or anything else we experience in life.

In arupa jhanas my mind and body sort of gone, but if I want to, then I can still feel what happens to it. In these states I can feel that I can be unaffected by anything, such as physical or mental pain for example. There is no discomfort at all, nothing can bother you if you don’t want it. Thoughts, mental patterns, colors, movements and etc of any kind are completely gone, yet my awareness is crystal clear and very strong.

In the higher jhanas I approach complete emptiness – there is nothing at all, yet insight as it’s described does not happen. I just sit with crystal clear mind-awareness and that’s all. I do feel completely rested and can sit like this for a long time. In these states I don’t feel my body if i don’t want to.

Ever since I was looking for what I can do with these states and partially found it, thanks to the Lal’s tremendous work with this site.

Especially this text helped me a lot to understand what to do next: https://puredhamma.net/sutta-interpretations/tapussa-sutta-akuppa-cetovimutti/

Lal – thank you so much from all my heart! ❤️

(btw – English is not my first language, sorry if what I write reads a bit strange)

[tiom]

Btw, to enter Jhanas I simply follow my breath as described by Leigh Brasington http://www.leighb.com/jhana3.htm

As long as I don’t expect anything at all – it works.

[Lal]

OK, Tiom. I am glad that you are able to attain jhanas.
– Of course, the jhanic experience is the same whether it is an Ariya jhana (with kama raga removed) and for anariya jhana (with kama raga suppressed).

Since you get to jhanas via breath meditation, these are definitely anariya jhana.
– But it is good to be able to get to any jhana.

The only thing I can say is that anariya jhanas do not get one to Nibbana (end of the rebirth process). But it is possible that you may not be interested in attaining Nibbana.

[tiom]

Dear Lal, via breath I access anariya jhanas and then progress to ariya jhanas. Ultimate goal is being able to be in reality as it is, and not as our minds create it.

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