- This topic has 1 reply, 2 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 3 months ago by Lal.
February 5, 2018 at 4:36 pm #13981AkvanParticipant
In the post Parinibbana of Waharaka Thero (https://puredhamma.net/new-revised-posts/parinibbana-of-waharaka-thero/) you have stated the following.
If someone dies with the three samyōjanā of kama raga, rūpa raga, and arūpa raga removed (and thus cannot grasp a bhava in any of the 31 realms) — but has not removed māna, uddacca, and avijjā samyōjanā — then one gets to what is called the Antara Parinibbāna state.
The gandhabba would still survive the death of the body and come out and stay alive until the kammic energy for the human bhava is exhausted, at which point the actual anupadisēsa Nibbāna will take place, since a new bhava cannot be grasped.
If someone dies and takes the form of a human gandhabba, this means that he is in the human bhava. I believe that if one has removed kama raga he will not have the upadana to be born in any kama realm and therefore cannot be in the human bhava, even though he may still have kammic energy for a human bhava. So, it doesn’t make sense that a antaraparinibbai will be a human gandhabba.
In the Purisagati Sutta (https://suttacentral.net/pi/an7.55) an antaraparinibbai person is explained. It is stated that an antaraparinibbai has not completely eliminated maananusaya, bhavaragaanusaya and avijjaanusaya. The pali is below;
“Tañca khvassa padaṃ na sabbena sabbaṃ sacchikataṃ hoti, tassa na sabbena sabbaṃ mānānusayo pahīno hoti, na sabbena sabbaṃ bhava¬rāgā¬nusayo pahīno hoti, na sabbena sabbaṃ avijjānusayo pahīno hoti. So pañcannaṃ orambhāgiyānaṃ saṃyojanānaṃ parikkhayā antarā¬pari¬nib¬bāyī hoti.”
Can this mean that an antaraparinibbai will not be born in the human realm and may be reborn in an arupi realm as he still has bhavaragaanusaya.
February 6, 2018 at 7:41 am #13984LalKeymaster
Akvan quoted the “Purisagati Sutta (AN 7.55)” and said, “So, it doesn’t make sense that a antaraparinibbai will be a human gandhabba.”
Thanks for pointing out that sutta. I was not aware of it, but it does describe the antaraparibbayi state, and in addition, that there are 7 types of antaraparinibbayi Noble persons.
1.There are 10 samyojana (sakkaya ditthi, vicikicca, silabbata paramasa, kama raga, patigha, rupa raga, arupa raga, mana, uddacca, avijja). These are the bonds that bind one to the samsara.
Out of these, three (kama raga, rupa raga, arupa raga) can bring future rebirths (i.e., grasping a NEW bhava, at the cuti-patisandhi moment). They are called uppati patilabhi sampyojana.
The other 7 are called bhava patilabhi samyojana. That means until those are removed, one is not released from a bhava.
2.There are 7 anusaya (ditthi, vicikicca, kama raga, patigha, bhava raga, mana, avijja).
Here bhavaraga anusaya is basically the “desire to live” regardless of the which bhava one is in. Mana, bhavaraga, and avijja are the last ones removed. Of course they keep reducing all through the other stages of Nibbana.
One is not fully released (parinaibbana) until all seven are removed.
3. Now the above sutta is about those Noble persons that have removed the three uppatti patilabhi samyojana, in addition to sakkaya ditthi, vicikicca, silabbata paramasa, and patigha.
The sutta specifically says, orambhagiya samyojana (the first five) have been removed. So, one is free of kama loka.
In addition, those Ariyas have removed rupa raga and arupa raga. Therefore, that person cannot grasp a NEW bhava in kama loka, rupa loka, or arupa loka.
However, one is not yet an Arahant because three samyojanas are still left: mana, uddacca, avijja. And one has three anusaya also left (not completely removed): , bhava raga, mana, avijja, as stated in the sutta.
4. Therefore, when the physical body of such a person dies, the gandhabba caomes out and is “stuck” in that state. He/she cannot grasp a new bhava, but cannot attain Arahanthood since other defilements are left.
That is why he/she will stay in that gandhabba state until the kammic energy for the human bhava that he/she grasped at the last cuti-patisandhi moment runs out.
5. The Waharaka Thero had told others that he had removed all three uppatti patilabhi samyojana, but had not removed others like mana and avijja fully.
This is why it was suspected that he would have attained (one of) the antaraparinibbana state described in this sutta.
However, it is also possible that he removed all remaining defilements close to the dying moment and attained the full Nibbana (parinibbana). The fact that his “dhatu” were recovered points to the latter conclusion.
6. Finally, the sutta mentions “anupadaparinibbana” state, which is the state an Arahant is at until his/her physical body dies; “anupada” means “close behind”. He/she has completed all requirements and will attain “full Nibbana” when the physical body dies. Gandhabba will not survive without that physical body.
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